[Politics] Tory meltdown finally arrived [was: incoming]...

[Thunder Bolt]

Labour really need to start laying into the Tory’s now and highlighting their manifold failures.
Really start hammering it home.

The odd shaky attempt at humour by Starmer at PMQ’s ain’t gonna cut it.

Go for the jugular. Destroy the ****s.

He's got to get the press onside first. Blair knew that.
Remember, we could have had chaos with Ed Milliband.

 

[Audax]

Remember, we could have had chaos with Ed Milliband.

"But what about Jeremy Corbyn..."



what?

 

[Lever]

"But what about Jeremy Corbyn..."



what?

..and Michael Foot....

 

[jcdenton08]

Just because we have a rubbish government, doesn’t mean the other options at the time would’ve been more successful. Under Cameron it was comparative halcyon days compared to what we’ve got now. If you’re thinking of a snarky reply to that, I direct you to re-read the word “comparative” again.

This election it’s a clear cut choice, get a terrible, deeply unpopular government out and a steady, moderate leader of the a moderate opposition into government.

No more right wing nutters, no left wing nutters to replace them. Finally some calm, boring and grey stability for the next decade please as we try and rebuild our economy and national image.

 

[Bodian]

I was shocked when I saw this earlier



It's top in this poll, can only assume it's the same in other polls.

I guess it's because it's framed as "We have no money, it's down to spending it on boat people"

So people think all the money is being spent on that

But that doesn't reflect whether people are concerned, or have it high on their pririoties.

It just reflects their view on what, out of all their cock-ups, the government are cocking up the most.

 

[nicko31]

Ladies and Gentlemen, let me introduce the member for Don Valley

 

[Audax]

It just reflects their view on what, out of all their cock-ups, the government are cocking up the most.

Indeed. It even doesn't tell us *why* people think they're cocking it up. How many of them are saying they're cocking it up because with every policy revision they go further and further hardline right (and completely missing that they created the problem in the first place by removing legal routes to apply from outside the UK), and how many are saying they're cocking it up because it's not hardline enough and want (how?!) to see us leave the ECHR and push through Rwanda ignoring international obligations. And then there's the group who think they're cocking it up purely because of how shambolic it's all become ... the policy will clearly never get off the ground before a GE results in a Labour government that will unpick it, and even if it did it will never put a dent in the actual numbers.

 

[jcdenton08]

Ladies and Gentlemen, let me introduce the member for Don Valley

Could be that, or could be staff are paid and treated like shit in an unfit for purpose NHS

 

[Hotchilidog]

Just because we have a rubbish government, doesn’t mean the other options at the time would’ve been more successful. Under Cameron it was comparative halcyon days compared to what we’ve got now. If you’re thinking of a snarky reply to that, I direct you to re-read the word “comparative” again.

This election it’s a clear cut choice, get a terrible, deeply unpopular government out and a steady, moderate leader of the a moderate opposition into government.

No more right wing nutters, no left wing nutters to replace them. Finally some calm, boring and grey stability for the next decade please as we try and rebuild our economy and national image.

Clearly you weren't a victim of austerity then. Cameron's govt was extremely damaging he just put a friendlier spin on it.

 

[chickens]

Labour really need to start laying into the Tory’s now and highlighting their manifold failures.
Really start hammering it home.

The odd shaky attempt at humour by Starmer at PMQ’s ain’t gonna cut it.

Go for the jugular. Destroy the ****s.

Why? They’re doing such a great job all by themselves.

I have real respect for him keeping his powder dry. Save it for the election campaign.

 

[The Clamp]

Why? They’re doing such a great job all by themselves.

I have real respect for him keeping his powder dry. Save it for the election campaign.

Why? Because people have very, very short memories. Labour need to be highlighting the Tory’s criminality and corruption in a sustained and continuous fashion.

 

[chickens]

Clearly you weren't a victim of austerity then. Cameron's govt was extremely damaging he just put a friendlier spin on it.

I think the reason the Cameron/Osborne axis gets something of a free ride, is that austerity cut in gradually. You got ‘boiling frog’ syndrome where the cuts got slightly worse year on year, and weren’t immediately noticed, rather like frogs being boiled don’t immediately notice that the water they’re swimming in is becoming uncomfortably warm.

However, the fact that Osborne/Cameron were more competent and successful at effectively gutting the country’s support structures and bringing forward all that follows does not render them a free pass in my book. To my mind the opposite applies and they require the greatest censure of all.

 

[Hotchilidog]

I think the reason the Cameron/Osborne axis gets something of a free ride, is that austerity cut in gradually. You got ‘boiling frog’ syndrome where the cuts got slightly worse year on year, and weren’t immediately noticed, rather like frogs being boiled don’t immediately notice that the water they’re swimming in is becoming uncomfortably warm.

However, the fact that Osborne/Cameron were more competent and successful at effectively gutting the country’s support structures and bringing forward all that follows does not render them a free pass in my book. To my mind the opposite applies and they require the greatest censure of all.

Absolutely agree

 

[chickens]

Why? Because people have very, very short memories. Labour need to be highlighting the Tory’s criminality and corruption in a sustained and continuous fashion.

Respectfully I disagree. Remember that in trying to get elected, Labour have to appeal to the swing voter, not the committed Labour voter.

One of the big turnoffs for Conservative voters regarding Labour is that Labour activists frequently seem angry, shouty and rude. That actually plays a bigger part in where people choose to put their ‘X’ than many appreciate.

Shouting “Tory c**ts” and constant criticism plays brilliantly with Wolfie Smith and his chums, but understandably puts off plenty of decent people who prefer their politics conducted in measured tones.

The Conservatives have performed many underhand acts during their time in power, but they have been able to bring decent people along with them because they’ve spoken well, smiled at the right times and effectively seemed “our kind of people.” A lesson that Labour have been slow to learn.

Constant criticism of the Conservative Party assists those who want to paint Labour as a party that complains that everything’s wrong but has no idea what to do about it.

The correct course of action for Labour is: Wait for the election campaign, have solid costed plans of their own, and point to the incumbent government’s record over the last thirteen years. The rest is just noise and activists point scoring on Twitter like that has any meaning.

 

[Stato]

Ladies and Gentlemen, let me introduce the member for Don Valley

He's right that Housing is a problem, he's right that people are struggling, he's right that the waiting lists in A&E are unacceptable, he's right that schools are at breaking point.

Blaming this on immigration and taking no responsiblity when his party has been in charge of housing policy, the economy, the NHS and education for over a decade is absolutely pathetic.

No, I won't call you a racist Nick. You'd like that because it might get you a job on GB News. Instead I'll call you what you are: A Failure.

Your ideas don't work, your ideology is a dead end, your priorities are wrong. You don't seem to understand that you are the MP for everyone in your constituency, not just the ones that you choose to champion. In playing divide and conquer you have failed all of them. They know this and that is why polling gives you a 3% chance of retaining your seat at the next election: https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/seatdetails.py?seat=Don Valley.

Enjoy GB News. Hopefully you'll be replaced by someone who wants to make this country a better place to live for everybody who is here.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Ladies and Gentlemen, let me introduce the member for Don Valley

The most recent figures I can find is Dec 2022 for Doncaster Royal Infirmary.

Patients waited an average of five hours and 32 minutes to be either admitted to an inpatient ward, transferred elsewhere or discharged from hospital.


Meanwhile, the shortest waits were between 9am and 10am on Thursdays, when patients waited an average of two hours and 29 minutes.

https://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/health/these-are-the-busiest-times-of-the-week-at-doncaster-and-bassetlaw-teaching-hospitals-trust-ae-3952589

I went to Doncaster for a weekend at the end of August, for a friend's Diamond Wedding anniversary. We had a river trip on the Don. He is talking out of the back of his neck.
He is the first Tory to be elected to this area, with a small 3K majority. I suspect he will be out of work at the next election.

 

[GrizzlingGammon]

Ladies and Gentlemen, let me introduce the member for Don Valley

The sooner we can flush these turds, the better.

 

[The Clamp]

Respectfully I disagree. Remember that in trying to get elected, Labour have to appeal to the swing voter, not the committed Labour voter.

One of the big turnoffs for Conservative voters regarding Labour is that Labour activists frequently seem angry, shouty and rude. That actually plays a bigger part in where people choose to put their ‘X’ than many appreciate.

Shouting “Tory c**ts” and constant criticism plays brilliantly with Wolfie Smith and his chums, but understandably puts off plenty of decent people who prefer their politics conducted in measured tones.

The Conservatives have performed many underhand acts during their time in power, but they have been able to bring decent people along with them because they’ve spoken well, smiled at the right times and effectively seemed “our kind of people.” A lesson that Labour have been slow to learn.

Constant criticism of the Conservative Party assists those who want to paint Labour as a party that complains that everything’s wrong but has no idea what to do about it.

The correct course of action for Labour is: Wait for the election campaign, have solid costed plans of their own, and point to the incumbent government’s record over the last thirteen years. The rest is just noise and activists point scoring on Twitter like that has any meaning.

I’m not talking about calling them names. More pointing out their failures. Repeatedly.

But yes, I get and largely agree with your viewpoint.

 

[jcdenton08]

Respectfully I disagree. Remember that in trying to get elected, Labour have to appeal to the swing voter, not the committed Labour voter.

One of the big turnoffs for Conservative voters regarding Labour is that Labour activists frequently seem angry, shouty and rude. That actually plays a bigger part in where people choose to put their ‘X’ than many appreciate.

Shouting “Tory c**ts” and constant criticism plays brilliantly with Wolfie Smith and his chums, but understandably puts off plenty of decent people who prefer their politics conducted in measured tones.

The Conservatives have performed many underhand acts during their time in power, but they have been able to bring decent people along with them because they’ve spoken well, smiled at the right times and effectively seemed “our kind of people.” A lesson that Labour have been slow to learn.

Constant criticism of the Conservative Party assists those who want to paint Labour as a party that complains that everything’s wrong but has no idea what to do about it.

The correct course of action for Labour is: Wait for the election campaign, have solid costed plans of their own, and point to the incumbent government’s record over the last thirteen years. The rest is just noise and activists point scoring on Twitter like that has any meaning.

Beautifully put.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I think the reason the Cameron/Osborne axis gets something of a free ride, is that austerity cut in gradually. You got ‘boiling frog’ syndrome where the cuts got slightly worse year on year, and weren’t immediately noticed, rather like frogs being boiled don’t immediately notice that the water they’re swimming in is becoming uncomfortably warm.

However, the fact that Osborne/Cameron were more competent and successful at effectively gutting the country’s support structures and bringing forward all that follows does not render them a free pass in my book. To my mind the opposite applies and they require the greatest censure of all.

Cameron thought the way to deal with the right wing in his party was to offer an advisory referendum (all referenda in Britain are advisory only) and then ran away when it went wrong. He is a coward who has now shown he can be bought with a title.