[Politics] Tory meltdown finally arrived [was: incoming]...

[rogersix]

Between Braverman’s disgusting speech and Partygate on C4 this evening anyone voting Tory at the next election needs to take a good look at themselves. Awful people

there are millions of them, in one of the best educated parts of the world, millions of them

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

View attachment 167527

They Daily Mail are this nations bitterest enemy. Papers like this have done incalculable harm to our social fabric, seemingly only to advance the business interests of it's proprietor

 

[Machiavelli]

Well, I disagree. There's no point under-estimating the Tory Party. They're the most successful and long-standing political party in the world. What this is is a tired government, devoid of a policy agenda, living through multiple crises (some of which it has created, others that it has exacerbated, others still that are the result of external factors), that is desperate to do what it's done for the past 300+ years, which is to hold on to power.
A sobering election defeat will prompt reflection and re-grouping and, before you know it, they'll have the hex over the small enough section of the electorate and, just like that, they'll be back doing what they're born to do.

 

[rogersix]

A rare visitor to such threads. Just seen the Farage dancing . So he’s back in the mainstream fold then.

That seals a Tory party for years to come that’ve morphed into the Sarah Palin / Trump Party of the UK. The coup d’etat has taken place in stages. The Rudd’s etc were ousted, then it will be Sunak and Hunt booted out, leaving total control to a rabid cabal. Who’ll eventually deny climate change etc.

In first past the post, 25% of polling according to Betfair odds equates to a predicted 150 Tory MP’s losing their seats, leaving 200.

But in 1997 Major got 31% of the vote and just 165 seats.

I’m wondering if 150 seats is about right?

Unique times imho. Labour and Tory parties in the Commons have each always contained a broad cross section of views. The Tory party until now contained swathes of pro Europeans, pro environmentalists, believers in a mixed economy …. they’re all being squeezed out.

Hopefully a party led by Braverman, Farage etc will never be popular at the polls. It’s up to Starmer to not waste or screw up at no 10. In tangible actions he has to be far more than just Not Braverman’s Tories.

starmer can't do it on his own, the people are going to have to do something eventually, let's hope it's not too late

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

there are millions of them, in one of the best educated parts of the world, millions of them

Well there are, but look at the diet of b******* they are being fed. Like gun toting American who will vote for their children to have 100x more risk when at school than a comparable country, or a hyperpatriotic Russian, convinced of their nations divine right to murder, rape and subjugate what they want from eastern Europe, there is one common truth we can discern.

Brainwashing works.

It works fantastically well. Sure it's a painstaking process. It takes years and years of dripfeeding, from multiple outlets, but you can get millions of people to genuinely deny demonstrable truths

 

[Thunder Bolt]

The most worrying aspect of the heckler seems to have been missed by most of the media. Namely why the police were involved. The man in question broke no laws that I’m aware of. The event will have private security to enforce their own rules within the conference, but that doesn’t make it a police matter.

Why is my tax money being used to silence dissent of the government?

Some people are asking Andy Burnham why GM police were involved.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Well there are, but look at the diet of b******* they are being fed. Like gun toting American who will vote for their children to have 100x more risk when at school than a comparable country, or a hyperpatriotic Russian, convinced of their nations divine right to murder, rape and subjugate what they want from eastern Europe, there is one common truth we can discern.

Brainwashing works.

It works fantastically well. Sure it's a painstaking process. It takes years and years of dripfeeding, from multiple outlets, but you can get millions of people to genuinely deny demonstrable truths

I can’t like this but I agree with your analysis. It is brainwashing, propaganda, and evil.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

Well, I disagree. There's no point under-estimating the Tory Party. They're the most successful and long-standing political party in the world. What this is is a tired government, devoid of a policy agenda, living through multiple crises (some of which it has created, others that it has exacerbated, others still that are the result of external factors), that is desperate to do what it's done for the past 300+ years, which is to hold on to power.
A sobering election defeat will prompt reflection and re-grouping and, before you know it, they'll have the hex over the small enough section of the electorate and, just like that, they'll be back doing what they're born to do.

The most likely scenario is that they act like labour did out of power.

They lose badly and spend a bit of time regrouping. They soon conclude that their loss was abandoning the "centre ground" and so they lurch even further to the right. They lose again, this time worse. Now a decade out of power, they do some soul searching and low and behold realise that they need to stop just appealing to a niche following and need to broaden their appeal.

Between 10 and 15 years out of power is my guess, but there may be some sort of coalition in there as well.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

I saw Partygate. I was appalled but not surprised.

In a workplace, culture matters. And that is driven from the top.

 

[nicko31]

They Daily Mail are this nations bitterest enemy. Papers like this have done incalculable harm to our social fabric, seemingly only to advance the business interests of it's proprietor

These non-doms shouldn't be allowed anywhere near press ownership here, let alone x-media ownership.

 

[A1X]

Some people are asking Andy Burnham why GM police were involved.

Good.

Don't get me wrong, the police should definitely be involved in enforcing wider security (after all the Government is still in residence) and keeping the perimeter safe, while dealing with any actual law-breaking within (e.g. someone trying to attack someone). But heckling a politician is not a crime, therefore the police should not be involved in that.

It's akin to a match at the Amex. The police definitely should be heavily involved in securing the place up to the turnstiles, but once inside their role is much reduced. I wouldn't expect to be escorted out by police for having a bottle with a top on in the stands, for example.

 

[Weststander]

I thought it was more to do with white female versus brown male. No contest.

But then Patel and Braverman seemed very popular amongst the loons?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Good.

Don't get me wrong, the police should definitely be involved in enforcing wider security (after all the Government is still in residence) and keeping the perimeter safe, while dealing with any actual law-breaking within (e.g. someone trying to attack someone). But heckling a politician is not a crime, therefore the police should not be involved in that.

It's akin to a match at the Amex. The police definitely should be heavily involved in securing the place up to the turnstiles, but once inside their role is much reduced. I wouldn't expect to be escorted out by police for having a bottle with a top on in the stands, for example.

Having a bottle top in the Amex is a major crime compared to muttering ‘this is trash’ to yourself whilst the mighty Braverman is in full flow!

 

[Nobby]

This country of ours is a mess.
A real mess

Someone put my mind at rest.

Have a governing party ever, in UK politics, with such negative poll ratings a year from a General Election, gone on to get re-elected?

Everyone here seems to accept these filthy scum Tories will get trounced, thrashed, indeed buried, at the next election.

So can they recover in the polls when it really matters?

 

[Weststander]

Well summarised, its been a gradual process. Whilst I hate Farage the guy is a very strong communicator and could well become leader assuming they lose the election. They will shift to the right, the moderates are in decline.

Starmer clearly sees the centre ground is well and truly vacated and sees the opportunity.

My nature is to like certainty and clarity. So I’m glad the cat’s out of the bag. Since 1992 there’s been a struggle with the Redwood’s & pals fighting from within. Mass immigration (I’m not a Brexiteer or close the borders person btw …. just that the numbers don’t lie) gave these fringe characters their opportunity. They’ve almost ‘won’ in taking control of the party.

I wonder if we could end up with several Commons in a row with say Labour 60% of seats, New Right Wing Tory 25%, others 15%? Other than squeezing out the Right, I don’t know if that’s a good thing long term, other voices need real power. My preference would be a Commons dominated with parties and MP’s from social democrats to centre old Tories.

 

[rogersix]

Well there are, but look at the diet of b******* they are being fed. Like gun toting American who will vote for their children to have 100x more risk when at school than a comparable country, or a hyperpatriotic Russian, convinced of their nations divine right to murder, rape and subjugate what they want from eastern Europe, there is one common truth we can discern.

Brainwashing works.

It works fantastically well. Sure it's a painstaking process. It takes years and years of dripfeeding, from multiple outlets, but you can get millions of people to genuinely deny demonstrable truths

the dupes do have to be willing

 

[BBassic]

Everyone here seems to accept these filthy scum Tories will get trounced, thrashed, indeed buried, at the next election.

Not me.

It ain't over, till it's over and you can never underestimate the voting populace of this country and their desire to harm themselves.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

the dupes do have to be willing

Not really.

A dominant political party together with a compliant media can drag people who would never have considered themselves right wing along with them. It just takes, lots of time and strong consistently reinforced narratives and it's quite possible to get swathes of a countries population to believe what you want them to believe.

There are plenty of examples of this through history.

 

[Si Gull]

This country of ours is a mess.
A real mess

Someone put my mind at rest.

Have a governing party ever, in UK politics, with such negative poll ratings a year from a General Election, gone on to get re-elected?

Everyone here seems to accept these filthy scum Tories will get trounced, thrashed, indeed buried, at the next election.

So can they recover in the polls when it really matters?

Yes, they can. A Tory defeat is by no means guaranteed. I suspect they won't win enough seats for a majority but as for a trouncing, I'm not so sure. An irrational deep seated fear of The Left will ensure many blue votes are cast. Also, the dog whistle pronouncements of Braverman and Co. will whip up enough anti-woke sentiment to garner the blue rinse/DM votes.

 

[Simster]

This country of ours is a mess.
A real mess

Someone put my mind at rest.

Have a governing party ever, in UK politics, with such negative poll ratings a year from a General Election, gone on to get re-elected?

Everyone here seems to accept these filthy scum Tories will get trounced, thrashed, indeed buried, at the next election.

So can they recover in the polls when it really matters?

Yes, they have the full weight of the media on their side. Plus the Conservative vote is always underestimated when polling day comes round.