[Politics] Tory meltdown finally arrived [was: incoming]...

[Bakero]

Come off it.

My ex-girlfriend lived in a rather deprived former mining town in West Yorkshire, around 15 miles from Leeds. Her Uncle worked from the age of 15 until retirement aged 60 in the colliery. He went from leaving school at 15 to going down a mine for 12 hours 5-6 days a week (Sundays off) for very little money, to running the entire pit and several others. He is the epitome of working class made good.

He was staunch Labour his entire life, and a regional union leader. He worked very long days, never travelled abroad, and the only holidays he took were yearly weekends in Scarborough, or occasionally Skegness.

He saved all his money to start a family with his wife. They lived modestly, rarely eating out in a small terraced house near the colliery so he wouldn’t have to drive and run a car.

Sadly, they couldn’t have children of their own. My ex-girlfriend was like a surrogate daughter to them, and they spoilt her rotten to give her all the chances that many growing up in a deprived area didn’t have. They left their entire inheritance to her, which given they saved every penny after a lifetime of work and no children, was a sizeable amount. This paid for a private education. Her first property bought for her. Driving lessons and a car.

She was the first person in her family to go to University. Thanks to the chances given to her, she was hugely successful.

Now; are you suggesting the right thing to do would be to have taken 80% of everything her Uncle and Aunt had earned, scrimped, saved and frugally to provide for their “only child” should have been taken away and given to the state?

You need to grow up, son.

So your ex had a privileged upbringing, a free car, a free house and went on to have a successful career. And you're upset at the idea that some of the free money she was given might have been taxed?

What's the concern? Are you worried she wouldn't have been able to pay for the maids and gardeners?

 

[jcdenton08]

So your ex had a privileged upbringing, a free car, a free house and went on to have a successful career. And you're upset at the idea that some of the free money she was given might have been taxed?

What's the concern? Are you worried she wouldn't have been able to pay for the maids and gardeners?

Yes, that is what I am worried about. Why not, if that helps.

 

[Bakero]

Yes, that is what I am worried about. Why not, if that helps.

Ok, well explain why you think taxation of someone who's been handed everything is unfair?

 

[jcdenton08]

Ok, well explain why you think taxation of someone who's been handed everything is unfair?

I don’t and never said they shouldn’t be taxed. Go back and carefully re-read everything I’ve said on the matter. If you still have any questions, feel free to ask.

 

[Bakero]

I don’t and never said they shouldn’t be taxed. Go back and carefully re-read everything I’ve said on the matter. If you still have any questions, feel free to ask.

Looking back at the post I originally quoted, I see you mention an 80% rate, presumbly in response to @Hugo Rune 's suggestion.

He said 80% above 500k. Let's say the estate was worth a million, she still would've got over 500 grand for doing nothing. Plus there's a tidy sum to the tax man to help pay for things that benefit the less fortunate as well as the rich. Everyone's a winner. Especially, the lucky recipient of all that free cash.

 

[rogersix]

That's not really evidence of the Tories want to turn the NHS into the US Healthcare service, they have had 13 years, if they wanted to do it they would have already have done it, how many years in charge do they need to do it?

The mirror one lists names and haven't listed anything they have done wrong, and it's been disclosed, I'd agree MPs shouldn't take money from any one other than the wage they get from the job being paid to lobby shouldn't be a thing.

As I said previously, I'm sure some would like to take it private and in line with the states, but it's not going to happen is it, it would lead to that party being blown away for years.

Pushing the idea of it's US or NHS is rubbish, and blocking any chance of change

as the tories know it would be political suicide to privatise the nhs, they do it bit by bit (eg cleaning contracts), and run the rest into the ground by underfunding. thus generating the necessary headlines in the right wing press to convince the public that there is no alternative to the american model. the long game

 

[dsr-burnley]

Yes yes there are - but the NHS was sold to me as a free service, my whole life I always assumed that the NHS would look after me and my family. That’s what I paid taxes for
Are you saying you would move to the US model?
If ever one of my kids was Ill on holiday in Europe, the service we received was just amazing. Didn’t have to wait 24 hours in an overcrowded A and E
Your problem is that you’ve been levelled down so much you forgot what to expect from this wonderful country of ours.
Your wonderful Tories have done this to us
Or maybe Burnley is now a beautiful sunny utopia in the UK and you haven’t noticed what the rest of us have to put up with.

Sheesh. Honestly Das - think

No, I'm not saying I would move to the US model. Repeat not. I wouldn't like to be misunderstood on this - so I will repeat that I do not like the US model.

The line "Surely other countries, perhaps those in the beloved EU, have healthcare systems that we could investigate?" was intended to suggest that perhaps other EU countries have a system that we could adapt, and I'm sorry that you took it (or anything else in the post) to express support for the US system. I'm at a bit of a loss how you thought I was, frankly.

Wouldn't you be in favour of looking at how these European countries (you don't say whether EU or not, but most European countries are) do it better than us? Or worse than us, if that's the case?

 

[dsr-burnley]

as the tories know it would be political suicide to privatise the nhs, they do it bit by bit (eg cleaning contracts), and run the rest into the ground by underfunding. thus generating the necessary headlines in the right wing press to convince the public that there is no alternative to the american model. the long game

If they wanted to generate headlines that neither the UK nor any EU system is any good, then they would have to run down the European models as well. Most people, not just the people on this board, know that European countries also have healthcare systems.

Remember that it was Labour who privatised the GP service right from the start, and have shown no remorse or desire to reverse it. It's hard to criticise the employment of a cleaner through an agency firm when doctors are employed on that basis, and have been since day 1.

 

[Nobby]

No, I'm not saying I would move to the US model. Repeat not. I wouldn't like to be misunderstood on this - so I will repeat that I do not like the US model.

The line "Surely other countries, perhaps those in the beloved EU, have healthcare systems that we could investigate?" was intended to suggest that perhaps other EU countries have a system that we could adapt, and I'm sorry that you took it (or anything else in the post) to express support for the US system. I'm at a bit of a loss how you thought I was, frankly.

Wouldn't you be in favour of looking at how these European countries (you don't say whether EU or not, but most European countries are) do it better than us? Or worse than us, if that's the case?

“You lost me at “beloved EU”

 

[Bodian]

It was quite remarkable - He's not going to 'speculate' on whether or not HS2 to Manchester will happen - It's not speculation if it's your decision you thick tw@t.

Amazing deflection from actually saying what he's planning!

 

[WATFORD zero]

No, I'm not saying I would move to the US model. Repeat not. I wouldn't like to be misunderstood on this - so I will repeat that I do not like the US model.

The line "Surely other countries, perhaps those in the beloved EU, have healthcare systems that we could investigate?" was intended to suggest that perhaps other EU countries have a system that we could adapt, and I'm sorry that you took it (or anything else in the post) to express support for the US system. I'm at a bit of a loss how you thought I was, frankly.

Wouldn't you be in favour of looking at how these European countries (you don't say whether EU or not, but most European countries are) do it better than us? Or worse than us, if that's the case?

But Johnson has already convinced you and the other converts that the EU is the devil incarnate and the ECHR is the source of all our woes hence

Are there any other healthcare systems apart from the UK and the USA? It seems to be a general assumption that there are no alternatives to the NHS, the system that used to be called the "envy of the world", other than the US model. Surely other countries, perhaps those in the beloved EU, have healthcare systems that we could investigate?

If they now started looking at what Europe does well, It would cause utter confusion amongst their converts.

Besides, they may not be able to scam as much money out of those systems as an American style one. Which reminds me, I wonder when the Independent report on the illegal PPE fast track program they introduced is due to report

 

[rogersix]

If they wanted to generate headlines that neither the UK nor any EU system is any good, then they would have to run down the European models as well. Most people, not just the people on this board, know that European countries also have healthcare systems.

Remember that it was Labour who privatised the GP service right from the start, and have shown no remorse or desire to reverse it. It's hard to criticise the employment of a cleaner through an agency firm when doctors are employed on that basis, and have been since day 1.

getting access to that huge slice of the budget is all that matters, all they need to succeed is enough useful idiots, that's how they, "got brexit done"

 

[rogersix]

Which reminds me, I wonder when the Independent report on the illegal PPE fast track program they introduced is due to report

can i take a stab at, after the next election

 

[Thunder Bolt]

If they wanted to generate headlines that neither the UK nor any EU system is any good, then they would have to run down the European models as well. Most people, not just the people on this board, know that European countries also have healthcare systems.

Remember that it was Labour who privatised the GP service right from the start, and have shown no remorse or desire to reverse it. It's hard to criticise the employment of a cleaner through an agency firm when doctors are employed on that basis, and have been since day 1.

The only thing the Tories care about is profits. Healthcare is secondary, so it has to be insurance companies that make lots of profits.
Just look at the privatised water companies. They are paying bonuses and dividends but no investment into infrastructure so pump the sewerage into water courses, whether it’s rivers or sea.

Pharmaceutical companies are going to charge high prices with a small market buying and no bargaining power.
27 countries or 1 little block offshore?

 

[jcdenton08]

Looking back at the post I originally quoted, I see you mention an 80% rate, presumbly in response to @Hugo Rune 's suggestion.

He said 80% above 500k. Let's say the estate was worth a million, she still would've got over 500 grand for doing nothing. Plus there's a tidy sum to the tax man to help pay for things that benefit the less fortunate as well as the rich. Everyone's a winner. Especially, the lucky recipient of all that free cash.

There certainly seems to be a huge amount of envy in your posts. I totally understand though. Did you actually have any questions or shall we leave it there?

 

[ManOfSussex]

“You lost me at “beloved EU”

He lost me at 'dsr-burnley said'

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Crime is up, convictions down, so what are the police doing?

Ah, stopping a coach with terrorists on board? No
Stopping a coach load of football fans? No.

Surrounding a coach with NHS workers going to Manchester, who might attract publicity at the conference.

 

[nicko31]

The only thing the Tories care about is profits. Healthcare is secondary, so it has to be insurance companies that make lots of profits.
Just look at the privatised water companies. They are paying bonuses and dividends but no investment into infrastructure so pump the sewerage into water courses, whether it’s rivers or sea.

Pharmaceutical companies are going to charge high prices with a small market buying and no bargaining power.
27 countries or 1 little block offshore?

If there isn't something in it for themselves, their cronies, their donors, there is little point.

Meanwhile use fringe wedge issues as distraction while they squander the nations assets.

 

[dsr-burnley]

The only thing the Tories care about is profits. Healthcare is secondary, so it has to be insurance companies that make lots of profits.
Just look at the privatised water companies. They are paying bonuses and dividends but no investment into infrastructure so pump the sewerage into water courses, whether it’s rivers or sea.

Pharmaceutical companies are going to charge high prices with a small market buying and no bargaining power.
27 countries or 1 little block offshore?

This chart shows that capital expenditure by water companies is higher since privatisation than it was before privatisation. Is it wrong?

Historic Water Datasets - NIC

The Commission has published its historic water data spanning back to 1961 for England and Wales. This new data set encompasses water and wastewater bills, capital expenditure and volume of water supplied.

nic.org.uk

I'm not convinced that a bloc of 450m people (as diverse as Spain and Estonia) is going to have significantly better purchasing power than a nation state of 67m. Is there any evidence that since Brexit, our pharmaceutical inflation is significantly higher than the EU's? It's an article of faith with government in general that "bigger is better" and the bigger the bloc, the cheaper the goods. Hence why Health Trusts get bigger and bigger and employ more and more staff. Economies of scale, to all appearances, seem to be fictional, but I would be interested in data that shows (in any government field, not just health) that bigger organisations are more efficient and/or cheaper.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

This chart shows that capital expenditure by water companies is higher since privatisation than it was before privatisation. Is it wrong?

Historic Water Datasets - NIC

The Commission has published its historic water data spanning back to 1961 for England and Wales. This new data set encompasses water and wastewater bills, capital expenditure and volume of water supplied.

nic.org.uk

I'm not convinced that a bloc of 450m people (as diverse as Spain and Estonia) is going to have significantly better purchasing power than a nation state of 67m. Is there any evidence that since Brexit, our pharmaceutical inflation is significantly higher than the EU's? It's an article of faith with government in general that "bigger is better" and the bigger the bloc, the cheaper the goods. Hence why Health Trusts get bigger and bigger and employ more and more staff. Economies of scale, to all appearances, seem to be fictional, but I would be interested in data that shows (in any government field, not just health) that bigger organisations are more efficient and/or cheaper.

Where is the capital expenditure by the water companies actually going? Why is untreated sewerage going into the rivers and sea when there is no storm?


Many countries had different vaccines for the covid jab, but if you were a pharmaceutical company, who would you give a bigger discount to?
As for clout, Apple have had to comply with the EU requirements.

New iPhone, new charger: Apple bends to EU rules

A European Union law will require portable devices to have a common charger by 2024.

www.bbc.co.uk