[Politics] Tory meltdown finally arrived [was: incoming]...

[A1X]

good summary. im looking forward to a party promising more immigration and higher taxes and how that will solve so many issues. seriously, until some politicans are honest and explain what's needed and why, nothing much will change.

Unfortunately it won't happen while the tabloid press continue to claim to shape public opinion. Their owners have vested interests and will fight tooth and nail to protect them, at the expense of everyone else in the country.

 

[beorhthelm]

Unfortunately it won't happen while the tabloid press continue to claim to shape public opinion. Their owners have vested interests and will fight tooth and nail to protect them, at the expense of everyone else in the country.

this is often claimed, not convinved the media owners have a vested interest in either point. maybe they do have political beliefs bias that way. sounds like a cop-out to me, blame anything other than politicans without backbone. we need better politicans. the ones with the anti-immigration are making all the noise while none are advocating an alternative policy. hear it quietly from business, need more staff, but no one in politics bold enough to state outright we need more immigrants, and how.

 

[A1X]

this is often claimed, not convinved the media owners have a vested interest in either point. maybe they do have political beliefs bias that way. sounds like a cop-out to me, blame anything other than politicans without backbone. we need better politicans. the ones with the anti-immigration are making all the noise while none are advocating an alternative policy. hear it quietly from business, need more staff, but no one in politics bold enough to state outright we need more immigrants, and how.

Oh I think you're right. But let's ask ourselves why the anti-immigration MPs are making the noise, is it because there are no pro-immigration MPs? I doubt that. So we have to look at whether our media eco-system is allowing of people to openly broadcast their views as pro-immigration while in public office.

If (e.g.) Angela Rayner turned around tomorrow and said that immigration is a massive benefit and we need more of it, she will be pilloried in the right-wing newspapers and by extension the broadcasters who often have to fill their time with the discussions on the "talking points" raised by the press. There is a reason why a full paper review forms a part of every major news channel in this country. Would she be pilloried because what she says is wrong? No, as I'm sure you would agree. But that wouldn't matter, we have a carefully crafted media bubble which only allows legitimacy to certain viewpoints, and politicians are only permitted to hold certain sides.

Let's look at other areas. On the subject of crime, there are many studies out there which will tell you that locking people up willy-nilly is hugely counterproductive, but suggesting anything other than that is "soft on crime". This whole "stop the boats" business is primarily a failure of the immigration system, asylum applications are around 20% of what they were 20 years ago and yet we have huge backlogs which prevent processing and lead to detention centres, but better asylum processing is not as permissible as the current ideas. Generally public opinion is overwhelmingly in favour of the public ownership of utilities, but not in the media it's not so to suggest it marks you as "Comrade xxx". On strikes, by and large during this winter's strike action the public backed the unions in almost every strike going, but the media and political narrative was constantly "how dare you!".

Is this all a coincidence? Not for me, Clive.

 

[chickens]

good summary. im looking forward to a party promising more immigration and higher taxes and how that will solve so many issues. seriously, until some politicans are honest and explain what's needed and why, nothing much will change.

I agree that I’d appreciate some political honesty, but I also understand why it’s not the messaging anybody wants to lead with. Nobody (except HMRC) shouts ‘Yay! Taxes!’ but underfunding vital public services has taken us to here.

As for immigration, the simple fact of the matter is that otherwise viable British businesses would have to close their doors if we stopped immigration completely. We still have to make up the shortfall of available workers until such time as we’ve implemented policies that raise our birth rate and waited the required 18 years to reach maturity.

This Conservative Party has proven incapable of planning beyond the next Daily Mail headline.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

this is often claimed, not convinved the media owners have a vested interest in either point. maybe they do have political beliefs bias that way. sounds like a cop-out to me, blame anything other than politicans without backbone. we need better politicans. the ones with the anti-immigration are making all the noise while none are advocating an alternative policy. hear it quietly from business, need more staff, but no one in politics bold enough to state outright we need more immigrants, and how.

The anti immigration is a lie, because immigration is actually up. Immigrants from India, Hong Kong and the Commonwealth are coming in, but not mentioned, because those who ‘hate’ immigrants are busy frothing at the mouth about boats.

When EU workers were here, many of them came for a few years and returned, so it was fluid, but the government decided to include university students (who were here for 3 or 4 years) in their figures to make sound worse than it was.
Smoke and mirrors.

 

[Pavilionaire]

My concern is young people are losing faith in democracy, out voting system is a big part of the problem

Oh I think you're right. But let's ask ourselves why the anti-immigration MPs are making the noise, is it because there are no pro-immigration MPs? I doubt that. So we have to look at whether our media eco-system is allowing of people to openly broadcast their views as pro-immigration while in public office.

If (e.g.) Angela Rayner turned around tomorrow and said that immigration is a massive benefit and we need more of it, she will be pilloried in the right-wing newspapers and by extension the broadcasters who often have to fill their time with the discussions on the "talking points" raised by the press. There is a reason why a full paper review forms a part of every major news channel in this country. Would she be pilloried because what she says is wrong? No, as I'm sure you would agree. But that wouldn't matter, we have a carefully crafted media bubble which only allows legitimacy to certain viewpoints, and politicians are only permitted to hold certain sides.

Let's look at other areas. On the subject of crime, there are many studies out there which will tell you that locking people up willy-nilly is hugely counterproductive, but suggesting anything other than that is "soft on crime". This whole "stop the boats" business is primarily a failure of the immigration system, asylum applications are around 20% of what they were 20 years ago and yet we have huge backlogs which prevent processing and lead to detention centres, but better asylum processing is not as permissible as the current ideas. Generally public opinion is overwhelmingly in favour of the public ownership of utilities, but not in the media it's not so to suggest it marks you as "Comrade xxx". On strikes, by and large during this winter's strike action the public backed the unions in almost every strike going, but the media and political narrative was constantly "how dare you!".

Is this all a coincidence? Not for me, Clive.

I agree with this, and I think you could add tax to your list. There is a narrative in this country that has almost become culturally accepted that tax cuts are good, tax rises are bad.

However, the majority of people would agree that public services have worsened, were not brilliant to start with and are underfunded. Ergo, we need tax rises to pay for the improvements. Tax cuts cannot possibly make public services any better and will almost certainly make them worse.

 

[A1X]

I agree with this, and I think you could add tax to your list. There is a narrative in this country that has almost become culturally accepted that tax cuts are good, tax rises are bad.

However, the majority of people would agree that public services have worsened, were not brilliant to start with and are underfunded. Ergo, we need tax rises to pay for the improvements. Tax cuts cannot possibly make public services any better and will almost certainly make them worse.

100% agree, people want Scandinavian levels of public service at US-levels of taxation, which is simply illogical. The only way to even try and make it work is to borrow a shit-ton of money, which is what Governments in the UK have done for the last 50 years.

 

[nicko31]

The anti immigration is a lie, because immigration is actually up. Immigrants from India, Hong Kong and the Commonwealth are coming in, but not mentioned, because those who ‘hate’ immigrants are busy frothing at the mouth about boats.

When EU workers were here, many of them came for a few years and returned, so it was fluid, but the government decided to include university students (who were here for 3 or 4 years) in their figures to make sound worse than it was.
Smoke and mirrors.

Think we its important to also remind everyone its now pretty hard for Brits to now leave the UK and live in the EU, infact there's a fair few coming back as their lives have been made harder. All adds to the net figure.

We're not queueing to live in India or Honkers

 

[Motogull]

LibDems only option in our ward to have any chance of ousting Tories. Labour and Greens shouldn’t field candidates or, if do, shouldn’t receive a vote.

Look up the tactical vote in your constituency

tactical.vote | General Election 2024

tactical.vote

Sigh.

 

[Machiavelli]

I agree with this, and I think you could add tax to your list. There is a narrative in this country that has almost become culturally accepted that tax cuts are good, tax rises are bad.

However, the majority of people would agree that public services have worsened, were not brilliant to start with and are underfunded. Ergo, we need tax rises to pay for the improvements. Tax cuts cannot possibly make public services any better and will almost certainly make them worse.

@beorhthelm is onto something: our politics is riven with dishonesty, and the phrase 'the truth hurts' hasn't been uttered by a politician for a long time.
One of the things that @beorhthelm called for was a politician being honest about the need for higher taxes. Well, the tax burden is the highest in recorded history and it's been brought about by a government whose mantra is that they're committed to low taxes, and there's little challenge to them from their chums in the press on this. The previous largest hike in the tax burden was perpetrated by one Margaret Thatcher, when her government doubled VAT overnight. Yet her reputation is of a tax cutter. What she did, and what the past 13 years has continued to do (and New Labour didn't make too much in terms of substantial inroads on this either) was to shift the burden of taxation from the rich to the poor.
Reversing that would be the most honest way of getting the public on-side but only if they accept that it's necessary. The tax burden needs to shift away from labour, particularly the labour of the bottom c80% of earnings, and towards assets and both conspicuous and carbon-intensive consumption. Whatever is raised needs to go towards repairing broken public services, nationalising certain industries (water would be my first in line), and getting behind a green industrial strategy (credit to Ed Miliband on this, he's produced a radical, transformatory agenda).

 

[MJsGhost]

LibDems only option in our ward to have any chance of ousting Tories. Labour and Greens shouldn’t field candidates or, if do, shouldn’t receive a vote.

Look up the tactical vote in your constituency

tactical.vote | General Election 2024

tactical.vote

No surprise here. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to see a majority of well over 10k for the LibDems at the GE.

Off you trot Caulfield, let's see how welcome you are back in the NHS after your voting record...

 

[Bodian]

Probably not quite the right thread for this - but he just doesn't stop does he

Boris and Carrie Johnson expecting third child in ‘just a few weeks’

Former PM’s wife announces pregnancy on Instagram, saying they ‘can’t wait to meet this little one’

www.theguardian.com

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Probably not quite the right thread for this - but he just doesn't stop does he

Boris and Carrie Johnson expecting third child in ‘just a few weeks’

Former PM’s wife announces pregnancy on Instagram, saying they ‘can’t wait to meet this little one’

www.theguardian.com

Yet his father advocates reducing Britains population to 30,000.

 

[chickens]

Yet his father advocates reducing Britains population to 30,000.

Not all fathered by Boris, surely?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Not all fathered by Boris, surely?

He and Stanley have contributed their share.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Accountability?

 

[The Clamp]

Today Sunak announced that “people have moved past caring about rich people”

After it was announced he and his wife’s fortunes dropped from 700m to a paltry 500m.

I don’t know how they manage.

 

[TomandJerry]

Schools in England are preparing to move to class sizes of as many as 60 children from September to deal with a funding crisis that headteachers say will force them to cut staff.

The government insists that there is still room in school budgets to cover the 4.5% pay offer that teachers overwhelmingly rejected last month, as well as rising costs. But angry headteachers have warned that next year they will reach the brink, with no option but to cut staff and increase class sizes.

 

[Tom Bombadil]

Schools in England are preparing to move to class sizes of as many as 60 children from September to deal with a funding crisis that headteachers say will force them to cut staff.

The government insists that there is still room in school budgets to cover the 4.5% pay offer that teachers overwhelmingly rejected last month, as well as rising costs. But angry headteachers have warned that next year they will reach the brink, with no option but to cut staff and increase class sizes.

 

[Frutos]