[Politics] Tory meltdown finally arrived [was: incoming]...

[Deportivo Seagull]

I do wonder if any of the civil servants should share the blame. It hasn't really been made clear whether the ministers were solely in charge of procurement of PPE and made decisions for all the contracts, or whether the ministers were doing what they could to source extra supplies while expecting the civil servants to deal with existing companies. I suspect the latter.

Is there any evidence that ministers gave specific orders that companies like Arco must not be used, or was it just a catalogue of incompetence where the civil servants who normally dealt with Arco couldn't cope with the change of circumstances and the ministers' attention was focussed on searching for new sources of supply, not realising that their staff couldn't even find the existing sources?

FFS, Civil servants are very risk adverse. There is no way on planet earth would they go for some fly by night outfit unless specifically instructed to by a corrupt piece of excrement masquerading as a government minister.

 

[The Clamp]

Bob Stewart MP tells human rights activist to 'go back to Bahrain'

Human rights activist Sayed Ahmed Alwadaei has complained to the Tory Party over the incident.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[beorhthelm]

Now you can spin it any way you like, but the bottom line is that the people in charge (the government) did nothing to ease bureaucracy at the time of crisis when there were companies perfectly capable of delivering working PPE.

there is a counter point to that, at the time the suppliers of PPE themselves said they could not provide enough material, as factories and supply chains where swamped with global demand. some details will come out in the inevitable inquiry, some probably wont to save the embarrassment of many who failed in their purpose to plan and respond to such events.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

there is a counter point to that, at the time the suppliers of PPE themselves said they could not provide enough material, as factories and supply chains where swamped with global demand. some details will come out in the inevitable inquiry, some probably wont to save the embarrassment of many who failed in their purpose to plan and respond to such events.

There were quite a few established PPE firms who put in for contracts who were completely ignored.

 

[clapham_gull]

I do wonder if any of the civil servants should share the blame. It hasn't really been made clear whether the ministers were solely in charge of procurement of PPE and made decisions for all the contracts, or whether the ministers were doing what they could to source extra supplies while expecting the civil servants to deal with existing companies. I suspect the latter.

Is there any evidence that ministers gave specific orders that companies like Arco must not be used, or was it just a catalogue of incompetence where the civil servants who normally dealt with Arco couldn't cope with the change of circumstances and the ministers' attention was focussed on searching for new sources of supply, not realising that their staff couldn't even find the existing sources?

Dear oh dear, clearly no knowledge of the workings of the public sector life.

You'd made yourself look a bit silly there.

 

[clapham_gull]

If natural Conservatives are in an doubt how extreme they have become after the Johnson purge it's worth pointing out the deranged ramblings of MP Johnathan Gullis.

Now complaining about Bishops "using the pulpit to preach from"

Tory MP attacks bishops for ‘using the pulpit to preach from’

Stoke-on-Trent MP told to ‘look up the meaning of Bishop in the dictionary’

www.independent.co.uk

 

[dsr-burnley]

Dear oh dear, clearly no knowledge of the workings of the public sector life.

You'd made yourself look a bit silly there.

But I still don't know whether the government specifically told the civil service that they must not get PPE from existing suppliers even if it was available - in which case they're obviously culpable. Or whether they personally took over the system of ordering and refused to let any civil servants have a go at it - in which case they're obviously culpable. Or whether they created a brand new system in which they deliberately excluded anyone with any knowledge of the system and ensured none of them were able to ask - in which case they're obviously culpable. Or whether the civil service was to some extent at fault.

I don't believe in this scenario whereby the minister was solely responsible for procurement and none of the 6,500 NHS England staff, and none of the 3,000 Department of Health staff, had any access to any of the ordering system. There must have been incompetence by some of them as well as by the minister.

If, as you all suggest, the minister said that he would do it all himself and his staff could take the time off, then there must be memos about it. But until I see more than rumours on a stridently anti-Tory message board, I won't believe that Hancock and only Hancock was able to order PPE.

 

[dsr-burnley]

If natural Conservatives are in an doubt how extreme they have become after the Johnson purge it's worth pointing out the deranged ramblings of MP Johnathan Gullis.

Now complaining about Bishops "using the pulpit to preach from"

Tory MP attacks bishops for ‘using the pulpit to preach from’

Stoke-on-Trent MP told to ‘look up the meaning of Bishop in the dictionary’

www.independent.co.uk

Don't be fatuous. His quote was only three sentences long and even if you've never read anything longer than a twitter thread you know that he's talking about preaching politics. You can get any politician to say anything if you take it completely out of context.

Gullis replied: “I don’t think unelected bishops in the House of Lords should be preaching about politics. I think they should be looking in-house at the wide abuse claims, and the Archbishop of Canterbury should be spending his time focusing on the Church’s reputation. I sadly think that there are too many people using the pulpit to preach from, and actually I think they’re out of touch with the overall majority of this great country.”

 

[clapham_gull]

Or whether they created a brand new system in which they deliberately excluded anyone with any knowledge of the system and ensured none of them were able to ask.....

If you have followed the subsequent legal actions you are clearly nearer to the truth.

Remember who was in Government at the time. A Prime Minister who never followed a rule in his life and an unhinged personal advisor with a deep seated hatred of the existing systems.

The only conspiracy being that the electorate voted democratically to allow the country to be ruled by a number chancers, oddballs and ideological extremists who took the Conservative party in a very very odd direction.

Nothing should be of surprise to you.

 

[clapham_gull]

Don't be fatuous. His quote was only three sentences long and even if you've never read anything longer than a twitter thread you know that he's talking about preaching politics. You can get any politician to say anything if you take it completely out of context.

Gullis replied: “I don’t think unelected bishops in the House of Lords should be preaching about politics. I think they should be looking in-house at the wide abuse claims, and the Archbishop of Canterbury should be spending his time focusing on the Church’s reputation. I sadly think that there are too many people using the pulpit to preach from, and actually I think they’re out of touch with the overall majority of this great country.”

You clearly don't follow the work of Gullis very closely.

 

[Motogull]

You clearly don't follow the work of Gullis very closely.

Gullis is an oddball and no mistake.

 

[The Clamp]

But I still don't know whether the government specifically told the civil service that they must not get PPE from existing suppliers even if it was available - in which case they're obviously culpable. Or whether they personally took over the system of ordering and refused to let any civil servants have a go at it - in which case they're obviously culpable. Or whether they created a brand new system in which they deliberately excluded anyone with any knowledge of the system and ensured none of them were able to ask - in which case they're obviously culpable. Or whether the civil service was to some extent at fault.

I don't believe in this scenario whereby the minister was solely responsible for procurement and none of the 6,500 NHS England staff, and none of the 3,000 Department of Health staff, had any access to any of the ordering system. There must have been incompetence by some of them as well as by the minister.

If, as you all suggest, the minister said that he would do it all himself and his staff could take the time off, then there must be memos about it. But until I see more than rumours on a stridently anti-Tory message board, I won't believe that Hancock and only Hancock was able to order PPE.

You’re like the man who jumps off a 30 storey building and keeps saying to himself on the way down “all okay so far”.

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

Don't be fatuous. His quote was only three sentences long and even if you've never read anything longer than a twitter thread you know that he's talking about preaching politics. You can get any politician to say anything if you take it completely out of context.

Gullis replied: “I don’t think unelected bishops in the House of Lords should be preaching about politics. I think they should be looking in-house at the wide abuse claims, and the Archbishop of Canterbury should be spending his time focusing on the Church’s reputation. I sadly think that there are too many people using the pulpit to preach from, and actually I think they’re out of touch with the overall majority of this great country.”

Bishops have been heavily involved in politics ever since Christianity arrived in these isles, so asking them to stop now is a waste of your breath.
As for Gullis, a strange and not particularly pleasant individual who I suspect will be gone at the next election.
The House of Lords is an unelected body so i’m not sure what he’s getting at. Maybe he should focus on the behaviour of the 60 odd MP’s who have been very naughty boys/girls or ask why we have a Russian in the House of Lord.
i would argue the Tory MP’s are way out of touch with the general populace which why they will be exiting stage left at the next election.
For the record I’m an atheist.

 

[rogersix]

I do wonder if any of the civil servants should share the blame. It hasn't really been made clear whether the ministers were solely in charge of procurement of PPE and made decisions for all the contracts, or whether the ministers were doing what they could to source extra supplies while expecting the civil servants to deal with existing companies. I suspect the latter.

Is there any evidence that ministers gave specific orders that companies like Arco must not be used, or was it just a catalogue of incompetence where the civil servants who normally dealt with Arco couldn't cope with the change of circumstances and the ministers' attention was focussed on searching for new sources of supply, not realising that their staff couldn't even find the existing sources?

off the scale! do you wonder about other things?

are you a tory mp?

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

off the scale! do you wonder about other things?

are you a tory mp?

He is talking bollocks but to accuse him of being a Tory MP is a bit harsh.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

This is, apparently a stridently anti-tory message board.

Said a man with no argument left.

We are certainly a stridently anti-Bumley message board.

 

[rogersix]

But I still don't know whether the government specifically told the civil service that they must not get PPE from existing suppliers even if it was available - in which case they're obviously culpable. Or whether they personally took over the system of ordering and refused to let any civil servants have a go at it - in which case they're obviously culpable. Or whether they created a brand new system in which they deliberately excluded anyone with any knowledge of the system and ensured none of them were able to ask - in which case they're obviously culpable. Or whether the civil service was to some extent at fault.

I don't believe in this scenario whereby the minister was solely responsible for procurement and none of the 6,500 NHS England staff, and none of the 3,000 Department of Health staff, had any access to any of the ordering system. There must have been incompetence by some of them as well as by the minister.

If, as you all suggest, the minister said that he would do it all himself and his staff could take the time off, then there must be memos about it. But until I see more than rumours on a stridently anti-Tory message board, I won't believe that Hancock and only Hancock was able to order PPE.

crivens! you have an internet connection, do your own research

 

[rogersix]

Don't be fatuous. His quote was only three sentences long and even if you've never read anything longer than a twitter thread you know that he's talking about preaching politics. You can get any politician to say anything if you take it completely out of context.

Gullis replied: “I don’t think unelected bishops in the House of Lords should be preaching about politics. I think they should be looking in-house at the wide abuse claims, and the Archbishop of Canterbury should be spending his time focusing on the Church’s reputation. I sadly think that there are too many people using the pulpit to preach from, and actually I think they’re out of touch with the overall majority of this great country.”

are you confident you understand what's happening around you?

the chap sits in the house of lords! it's his job!

 

[Thunder Bolt]

are you confident you understand what's happening around you?

the chap sits in the house of lords! it's his job!

The House of Lords, with Lords Temporal and Lords Spiritual.

 

[dsr-burnley]

Bishops have been heavily involved in politics ever since Christianity arrived in these isles, so asking them to stop now is a waste of your breath.
As for Gullis, a strange and not particularly pleasant individual who I suspect will be gone at the next election.
The House of Lords is an unelected body so i’m not sure what he’s getting at. Maybe he should focus on the behaviour of the 60 odd MP’s who have been very naughty boys/girls or ask why we have a Russian in the House of Lord.
i would argue the Tory MP’s are way out of touch with the general populace which why they will be exiting stage left at the next election.
For the record I’m an atheist.

I don't agree with Gullis's comments. Bishops should preach about politics, especially those who are part of the Lords Temporal. All I'm saying is that Gullis should be criticised for what he said; he should not have comments invented (or in this case, edited) as a way of encouraging people to laugh at him for something he did not say.