[Politics] Tory meltdown finally arrived [was: incoming]...

[jimhigham]

They are online for all to see.

Your argument is weak, untrue and rather befitting of the posts you seem to make on here.

10 Labour policies to change Britain – The Labour Party

After 14 years in government, the Tories have run out of excuses – and out of ideas. Only Labour policies will address the long-term issues Britain faces. The country can’t afford more of the same sticking-plaster politics that make the problems people face even worse. Keir Starmer has changed...

labour.org.uk

So tired of hearing the old "Labour have no plan" line trotted out endlessly but the government do it, safe in the knowledge that it will become "fact" for a certain number of the electorate.

I've heard the same from my father-in-law. I pointed out that he wasn't going to read Labour's plans in his copy of The Times and he wasn't looking for them anywhere else ergo he'd seen none.

At least Labour will actually have airtime to publicise their plans come the election.

 

[vegster]

No, but I think I am.
Crikey, it's tough on here, isn't it?
A poster had listed some things that could be improved, including the NHS. He then said these are better in most of Europe. My response was in respect of the NHS in Europe. Of course, there is healthcare everywhere. What there isn't everywhere, other than in UK, is a NHS.
If, on the other hand, the poster meant that healthcare in Europe is better than in UK, that is altogether a different question....

Blimey, I need to sit down and have a drink now.

It's rather odd that you are tying yourself in knots over my post saying that things should be better. You choose to obsess with my inference that the NHS should be better, in line with European health services. Take a step back, have a little think...I would like much of the UK to be improved, many many things here are worse than European/ G7 equivalents.....


Wouldn't you like improvements that improve the lives and jobs of the many ? And, which party do you think aspires to do that out of the Tories and Labour, the Lib Dems and even The Greens ?

 

[The Clamp]

I hope so as I haven’t got a clue what a parentheses is/are or even what they are for, i feel like i’m missing out

They’re your Mumtheses and Dadtheses.

 

[Chicken Run]

They’re your Mumtheses and Dadtheses.

Oh that makes a lot of sense (well to me)

 

[dazzer6666]

I hope so as I haven’t got a clue what a parentheses is/are or even what they are for, i feel like i’m missing out

Quite a few in that bracket

 

[nwgull]

I think (we) all saw the likelihood of a Labour Government increase today.

As for policies (we) will have to wait for the manifesto and (we) can weigh them up against the Tories.

So tired of hearing the old "Labour have no plan" line trotted out endlessly but the government do it, safe in the knowledge that it will become "fact" for a certain number of the electorate.

I've heard the same from my father-in-law. I pointed out that he wasn't going to read Labour's plans in his copy of The Times and he wasn't looking for them anywhere else ergo he'd seen none.

At least Labour will actually have airtime to publicise their plans come the election.

Labour don’t really need to write and publicise a long manifesto that only needs to say one thing: We are not the Tory party.

 

[Randy McNob]

As if a political party virtually guaranteed to be elected into government in around 6 months time wouldn't have a plan?

Cons only going after the idiot vote

 

[chickens]

As if a political party virtually guaranteed to be elected into government in around 6 months time wouldn't have a plan?

Cons only going after the idiot vote

That’s what I find so depressing. This new breed of Conservative delights in misinformation and outright taking the voters for mugs.

I might not always have agreed with the Conservatives of the past, but you felt their views were sincerely held, even if you felt they pointed in the wrong direction or failed to take account of reality.

The current crop will say anything, happily lying through their teeth as long as they think it will score a point with their ever shrinking far right voter base.

I’m not always a fan of Rory Stewart and Alistair Campbell on The Rest Is Politics, but Rory in one of the episodes pointed out that it was a wasted effort in the Conservatives lurching even further right, as parties such as Reform/Britain First can always move further right than them, and they lose vote share in the (more numerous) centre ground by doing so.

This Conservative Party are owned by a highly unpleasant cabal of far-right grifters pushing Braverman, Truss et al into our public life against a mostly resistant British public. Oh for a Kenneth Clarke or a Michael Heseltine, even a Theresa May looks appealing against the current crop.

I fear that like Trump and his backers have irreversibly contaminated the Republican Party, this current bunch of donors and grifters have potentially destroyed one of our two main political parties.

 

[abc]

As if a political party virtually guaranteed to be elected into government in around 6 months time wouldn't have a plan?

Cons only going after the idiot vote

They are indeed (almost) guaranteed to win but there is no sign of a plan. Looking at the 10 policies posted earlier, they are all good sound bites but supported with few numbers or crucially the policies that will produce the funding required. If this was the Tory top 10 policies, they would rightly get ripped to shreds on here.
Not being the Tories will win them the election and that’s a very good thing, but given the likelihood of a large majority they have the opportunity to offer up a coordinated plan that goes into areas that are necessary for the long term good of the country but will be short term unpopular with many. Instead, they are largely offering more of the same but (hopefully) without the corruption or lies.
I’m not angry, just very disappointed.

 

[Chicken Run]

That’s what I find so depressing. This new breed of Conservative delights in misinformation and outright taking the voters for mugs.

I might not always have agreed with the Conservatives of the past, but you felt their views were sincerely held, even if you felt they pointed in the wrong direction or failed to take account of reality.

The current crop will say anything, happily lying through their teeth as long as they think it will score a point with their ever shrinking far right voter base.

I’m not always a fan of Rory Stewart and Alistair Campbell on The Rest Is Politics, but Rory in one of the episodes pointed out that it was a wasted effort in the Conservatives lurching even further right, as parties such as Reform/Britain First can always move further right than them, and they lose vote share in the (more numerous) centre ground by doing so.

This Conservative Party are owned by a highly unpleasant cabal of far-right grifters pushing Braverman, Truss et al into our public life against a mostly resistant British public. Oh for a Kenneth Clarke or a Michael Heseltine, even a Theresa May looks appealing against the current crop.

I fear that like Trump and his backers have irreversibly contaminated the Republican Party, this current bunch of donors and grifters have potentially destroyed one of our two main political parties.

The same was said about Momentum destroying the Labour Party after the 2019 GE, a few years later and we are on the verge of a Labour Government with a huge majority, 24 hours is a long time in Politics…..

 

[Gabbiano]

The other benefit of a Tory wipeout is that many of the current cabal of far righters will lose their seats. Particularly this is true as these are in many cases the same people who were parachuted in to win the red wall seats in 2019.

The longer serving, more stable Tories in the safest seats of all will remain, and will be the ones to drive their direction after the next election.

I hope they can see that moving further to far right vitriol is what lost them the most support.

 

[chickens]

The same was said about Momentum destroying the Labour Party after the 2019 GE, a few years later and we are on the verge of a Labour Government with a huge majority, 24 hours is a long time in Politics…..

You are, of course, absolutely right. It feels like a long way back from here though, especially with Braverman et al still pushing the party to tack further right.

 

[nwgull]

They are indeed (almost) guaranteed to win but there is no sign of a plan. Looking at the 10 policies posted earlier, they are all good sound bites but supported with few numbers or crucially the policies that will produce the funding required. If this was the Tory top 10 policies, they would rightly get ripped to shreds on here.
Not being the Tories will win them the election and that’s a very good thing, but given the likelihood of a large majority they have the opportunity to offer up a coordinated plan that goes into areas that are necessary for the long term good of the country but will be short term unpopular with many. Instead, they are largely offering more of the same but (hopefully) without the corruption or lies.
I’m not angry, just very disappointed.

They’ll almost certainly have a plan, but the strategy is to keep their powder dry until an election is actually called.

 

[Hugo Rune]

The other benefit of a Tory wipeout is that many of the current cabal of far righters will lose their seats. Particularly this is true as these are in many cases the same people who were parachuted in to win the red wall seats in 2019.

The longer serving, more stable Tories in the safest seats of all will remain, and will be the ones to drive their direction after the next election.

I hope they can see that moving further to far right vitriol is what lost them the most support.

I wish Labour and Lib Dems could create an Alliance for the next election to achieve one goal. For the Lib Dems to become the official opposition.

There are many seats that if Labour or the Lib Dems stood aside, a Tory may fall. Like this one:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fareham_(UK_Parliament_constituency).

Labour need to be challenged on things like the Environment and closer ties with the EU. The Lib Dems are best placed to do this.

Let the Tories continue on their path to the hard right and become the 3rd or 4th largest party.

 

[Bob!]

I wish Labour and Lib Dems could create an Alliance for the next election to achieve one goal. For the Lib Dems to become the official opposition.

There are many seats that if Labour or the Lib Dems stood aside, a Tory may fall. Like this one:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fareham_(UK_Parliament_constituency).

Labour need to be challenged on things like the Environment and closer ties with the EU. The Lib Dems are best placed to do this.

Let the Tories continue on their path to the hard right and become the 3rd or 4th largest party.

And they can get proper PR in and keep the Tories out forever

 

[Chicken Run]

You are, of course, absolutely right. It feels like a long way back from here though, especially with Braverman et al still pushing the party to tack further right.

Difference being that the Momentum autopsy was after the GE not before.

 

[Hugo Rune]

And they can get proper PR in and keep the Tories out forever

A good deal for the Lib Dems. The compromise would be a version of STV perhaps rather than PR.

 

[Randy McNob]

The same was said about Momentum destroying the Labour Party after the 2019 GE, a few years later and we are on the verge of a Labour Government with a huge majority, 24 hours is a long time in Politics…..

i'm not sure that's a like for like comparison. I think it's simple case the Tories lurched right and allowed Labour to take the centre ground which is where most of the electorate are, although let's be clear, this is a right of centre Labour party, a neccesary evil to get elected. Hopefully Starmer will slowly pull them back to the left when in office

 

[BrianB]

They’ll almost certainly have a plan, but the strategy is to keep their powder dry until an election is actually called.

The reason the tories want Labour too declare their plans is so they can either steal or wreck them - National Insurance being a current target .

 

[chickens]

Difference being that the Momentum autopsy was after the GE not before.

True, but the Conservative Party autopsy seems to be coming to the conclusion that they haven’t moved right enough, which leaves those who prefer a sane centre right party with the Liberal Democrats as their only option.