[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[raymondo]

Yes, let’s hope she survives prison but her poor health might reduce her chances. Putin’s oppression of Russian citizens and the rising death toll surely can’t go on indefinitely. There must be growing concern and resentment inside Russia.

Sadly I think the oppression in Russia is settled in for the long haul. The draconian prison sentences will, I believe, slowly deter dissent (I mean 'honesty') - so long as they have a large, loyal police force, they will just carry on

 

[A1X]

 

[raymondo]

Yes, if they can consolidate this position it will be interesting to see how/when they push forward from there

 

[Sirnormangall]

Sadly I think the oppression in Russia is settled in for the long haul. The draconian prison sentences will, I believe, slowly deter dissent (I mean 'honesty') - so long as they have a large, loyal police force, they will just carry on

Yes you’re right, oppression has been a part of the Russian state apparatus for many years and unlikely to diminish any time soon. But from memory there were signs of civil unrest after the losses in Chechnya and Afghanistan - admittedly short lived - but their losses now far exceed those and I wonder how much longer they can keep the lid on the growing grief and resentment among ordinary people. I’m intrigued by the clips I see on the YouTube 1420 channel. It purports to be based on interviews with ordinary Russian citizens, giving insight into their views on the war and their government. If it can be believed ( I don’t know how reliable this source is) a significant proportion of the population disagree with the war and the rationale for it. Of course that doesn’t necessarily translate in to action that would change anything.

 

[raymondo]

Yes you’re right, oppression has been a part of the Russian state apparatus for many years and unlikely to diminish any time soon. But from memory there were signs of civil unrest after the losses in Chechnya and Afghanistan - admittedly short lived - but their losses now far exceed those and I wonder how much longer they can keep the lid on the growing grief and resentment among ordinary people. I’m intrigued by the clips I see on the YouTube 1420 channel. It purports to be based on interviews with ordinary Russian citizens, giving insight into their views on the war and their government. If it can be believed ( I don’t know how reliable this source is) a significant proportion of the population disagree with the war and the rationale for it. Of course that doesn’t necessarily translate in to action that would change anything.

Yes those are good points. Maybe there is a growing groundswell of resentment among ordinary Russians that they'll find hard to keep the lid on. Let's hope

 

[Eric the meek]

@Sirnormangall and @raymondo, I found this article about the snitching culture inside Russia:

It is a sad, but interesting, manifestation of the oppression culture in Russia. Yes, it seems to be getting worse. Sad and damaging for those snitched upon.
But, there is another view you can take. If there wasn't widespread dissent, then there wouldn't be widespread snitching. Korobkova's claim to have written 1,397 denunciations is actually a good sign. A sign that dissent is alive and well.

Then there is the question of why the snitchers feel the need to portray themselves as 'good Russians' to the state. It may be because they are afraid. Afraid of losing the war, and afraid of possible reparations, and the implications on their jobs.

Both the snitchers, and the snitched, are living in fear.

Ukraine war: The Russians snitching on colleagues and strangers

In Soviet Russia it was common for people to report others to the authorities - now the practice is back.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[raymondo]

@Sirnormangall and @raymondo, I found this article about the snitching culture inside Russia:

It is a sad, but interesting, manifestation of the oppression culture in Russia. Yes, it seems to be getting worse. Sad and damaging for those snitched upon.
But, there is another view you can take. If there wasn't widespread dissent, then there wouldn't be widespread snitching. Korobkova's claim to have written 1,397 denunciations is actually a good sign. A sign that dissent is alive and well.

Then there is the question of why the snitchers feel the need to portray themselves as 'good Russians' to the state. It may be because they are afraid. Afraid of losing the war, and afraid of possible reparations, and the implications on their jobs.

Both the snitchers, and the snitched, are living in fear.

Ukraine war: The Russians snitching on colleagues and strangers

In Soviet Russia it was common for people to report others to the authorities - now the practice is back.

www.bbc.co.uk

Good points and link, thank you

 

[Bakero]

Another of my Ukrainian students has been back home this past couple of weeks. Great news that she feels safe to do so and that she's been able to meet up with friends and family.

 

[Sirnormangall]

@Sirnormangall and @raymondo, I found this article about the snitching culture inside Russia:

It is a sad, but interesting, manifestation of the oppression culture in Russia. Yes, it seems to be getting worse. Sad and damaging for those snitched upon.
But, there is another view you can take. If there wasn't widespread dissent, then there wouldn't be widespread snitching. Korobkova's claim to have written 1,397 denunciations is actually a good sign. A sign that dissent is alive and well.

Then there is the question of why the snitchers feel the need to portray themselves as 'good Russians' to the state. It may be because they are afraid. Afraid of losing the war, and afraid of possible reparations, and the implications on their jobs.

Both the snitchers, and the snitched, are living in fear.

Ukraine war: The Russians snitching on colleagues and strangers

In Soviet Russia it was common for people to report others to the authorities - now the practice is back.

www.bbc.co.uk

Thanks for posting - a sure sign of an increasingly insecure government

 

[raymondo]

@Sirnormangall and @raymondo, I found this article about the snitching culture inside Russia:

It is a sad, but interesting, manifestation of the oppression culture in Russia. Yes, it seems to be getting worse. Sad and damaging for those snitched upon.
But, there is another view you can take. If there wasn't widespread dissent, then there wouldn't be widespread snitching. Korobkova's claim to have written 1,397 denunciations is actually a good sign. A sign that dissent is alive and well.

Then there is the question of why the snitchers feel the need to portray themselves as 'good Russians' to the state. It may be because they are afraid. Afraid of losing the war, and afraid of possible reparations, and the implications on their jobs.

Both the snitchers, and the snitched, are living in fear.

Ukraine war: The Russians snitching on colleagues and strangers

In Soviet Russia it was common for people to report others to the authorities - now the practice is back.

www.bbc.co.uk

Ms Korobkova shows there's nothing human about a Humanities Professor. Let's hope someone makes up a reason to snitch on her.

 

[Eric the meek]

Thanks for posting - a sure sign of an increasingly insecure government

Indeed. As a student of Russian history, Putin will have studied what happened to the ruling elite in the revolutions of 1905 and 1917. He will be very aware of the risk of the Russian people acquiring the 'wrong' information, and what it can mean to the ruling classes. Especially after a century of oppression, without freedom.

This is why he puts huge effort, time and money into what news ordinary Russians have access to via state media, internet and social media. It is why he has eliminated all organised opposition, why it is illegal to refer to the special military operation as a war etc. He has now got the people denouncing each other. The iron curtain has once again fallen.

 

[raymondo]

Another of my Ukrainian students has been back home this past couple of weeks. Great news that she feels safe to do so and that she's been able to meet up with friends and family.

That's good to hear. Our teenage Ukrainian niece, living with us in darkest Wiltshire, visited her father, sister and friends in Zaporizhzhia city during August. She hadn't seen them since moving here in April 2022. The visit wasn't without risk and she witnessed shells flying overhead into other suburbs. But she was desperate to go and we made the journey as safe as possible. A second reason to visit was to renew her Ukrainian international passport: after trying for months, we had zero help from the Ukrainian embassy in London... they just did not seem to accept appointments for passport renewal. Bizarre, considering how many Ukrainians there now are in the UK . Anyway, job done easily and professionally in Zap.

 

[sparkie]

 

[raymondo]

Only just seen this from Sky:

Wives of Russian soldiers protest military conditions​

The wives of deployed Russian soldiers have taken part in what is likely to be the first public street protest in Moscow since the start of the invasion of Ukraine, the UK's Ministry of Defence (MoD) has said.
Protesters gathered in Teatralnaya Square holding banners demanding their partners be moved away from the frontline in a rotation of troops.
It was broken up by police within a matter of minutes, according to the MoD.
There have been examples of Russian wives and mothers making online appeals protesting the conditions of their loved ones almost daily since February last year, but laws in Russia have prevented them from physically protesting.
The MoD said the protest is a sign that both relatives and troops think deployment without rotation is seen as "increasingly unsustainable".

 

[Hugo Rune]

Only just seen this from Sky:

Wives of Russian soldiers protest military conditions​

The wives of deployed Russian soldiers have taken part in what is likely to be the first public street protest in Moscow since the start of the invasion of Ukraine, the UK's Ministry of Defence (MoD) has said.
Protesters gathered in Teatralnaya Square holding banners demanding their partners be moved away from the frontline in a rotation of troops.
It was broken up by police within a matter of minutes, according to the MoD.
There have been examples of Russian wives and mothers making online appeals protesting the conditions of their loved ones almost daily since February last year, but laws in Russia have prevented them from physically protesting.
The MoD said the protest is a sign that both relatives and troops think deployment without rotation is seen as "increasingly unsustainable".

We know how this will end.

I wonder where they put them once they’ve been arrested? Are they building more prisons or are they just going to start ‘disappearing them.’

 

[Eric the meek]

Only just seen this from Sky:

Wives of Russian soldiers protest military conditions​

The wives of deployed Russian soldiers have taken part in what is likely to be the first public street protest in Moscow since the start of the invasion of Ukraine, the UK's Ministry of Defence (MoD) has said.
Protesters gathered in Teatralnaya Square holding banners demanding their partners be moved away from the frontline in a rotation of troops.
It was broken up by police within a matter of minutes, according to the MoD.
There have been examples of Russian wives and mothers making online appeals protesting the conditions of their loved ones almost daily since February last year, but laws in Russia have prevented them from physically protesting.
The MoD said the protest is a sign that both relatives and troops think deployment without rotation is seen as "increasingly unsustainable".

We are all looking/hoping for cracks to appear in the Russian war machine. Well this may be one of them.

It will have taken great courage for the wives to organise and carry out this protest. I see it was cleared up quickly. But it is the fact it has happened that is significant.

It means that conditions on the front line are grim. It also probably means that the Russian front line troops really, really don't want to be there. Some will have discussed the protest with their wives, and are prepared for their wives to be arrested and face an unknown fate.

 

[raymondo]

We are all looking/hoping for cracks to appear in the Russian war machine. Well this may be one of them.

It will have taken great courage for the wives to organise and carry out this protest. I see it was cleared up quickly. But it is the fact it has happened that is significant.

It means that conditions on the front line are grim. It also probably means that the Russian front line troops really, really don't want to be there. Some will have discussed the protest with their wives, and are prepared for their wives to be arrested and face an unknown fate.

Yes, great courage that,as you say, must be driven by very poor conditions at the front.

 

[raymondo]

We know how this will end.

I wonder where they put them once they’ve been arrested? Are they building more prisons or are they just going to start ‘disappearing them.’

I imagine they'll be given a serious warning the first time, then some will, as you say, selectively disappear if they dare protest again.

 

[Sirnormangall]

Only just seen this from Sky:

Wives of Russian soldiers protest military conditions​

The wives of deployed Russian soldiers have taken part in what is likely to be the first public street protest in Moscow since the start of the invasion of Ukraine, the UK's Ministry of Defence (MoD) has said.
Protesters gathered in Teatralnaya Square holding banners demanding their partners be moved away from the frontline in a rotation of troops.
It was broken up by police within a matter of minutes, according to the MoD.
There have been examples of Russian wives and mothers making online appeals protesting the conditions of their loved ones almost daily since February last year, but laws in Russia have prevented them from physically protesting.
The MoD said the protest is a sign that both relatives and troops think deployment without rotation is seen as "increasingly unsustainable".

I recall reading somewhere that the absence of rotation means there is no time limit on the length of service ie. no automatic right to leave after a certain number of years service - unless you reach age 65.

 

[raymondo]

I recall reading somewhere that the absence of rotation means there is no time limit on the length of service ie. no automatic right to leave after a certain number of years service - unless you reach age 65.

It's pretty poor management from them () given the high numbers of troops they have. Maybe it means they know their 000s of new conscripts (allegedly) have very little chance of protecting the ground they currently hold.
It's good news for Ukraine if they can stay the course': exhausted and demoralised Russian soldiers at the front will lead to good things.