[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[Triggaaar]

Just watching the news and BBC just said they've verified the video as genuine

 

[raymondo]

An example of close combat as Ukrainians flush Russians out of the woods:

Ukraine war: Military analyst watches 'sobering' footage of close quarters fighting in Bakhmut

Ukrainian troops can be seen pushing up through a tree line in Bakhmut, as Russian forces attempt to defend their position.

news.sky.com

 

[Icy Gull]

The older you are the more easily you are led it seems

 

[schmunk]

The older you are the more easily you are led it seems

See also: Brexit.

 

[portslade seagull]

The older you are the more easily you are led it seems

Need to lob a couple of Storm Shadows there way to let them in on the action

 

[raymondo]

Article including update on Shebekino, a Russian border town near Belgorod, that is currently under the control of the anti Russian groups operating from Ukraine.

Chaos on frontlines as Ukraine war threatens to come home for Russia

As ‘governor’ claims streets are calm in flooded Kherson, Russian town of Shebekino is emptying amid heavy shelling

www.theguardian.com

 

[sparkie]

This is thought provoking.

I don't know the actual practicalities but it may be that blowing the dam has made the nuclear power plant way easier to recapture.

 

[raymondo]

This is thought provoking.

I don't know the actual practicalities but it may be that blowing the dam has made the nuclear power plant way easier to recapture.

Thanks. An interesting silver lining possibility to the blowing of the dam.
Still, retaking the power station will include many risks... I don't think Russia would give it up easily. That's war though.

 

[Eric the meek]

Sky's latest report has a couple of interesting articles:

1. Wagner defies Putin's orders.
2. How Putin will likely be replaced, according to an expert.

Ukraine-Russia war latest: Putin picks ex-bodyguard for senior role - fuelling succession rumours

The Russian president has brought Alexei Dyumin, 51, closer to the centre of power since his re-election in March. Meanwhile, the leaders of France and Germany have said Ukraine should be allowed to strike targets in Russia - but on certain conditions.

news.sky.com

 

[raymondo]

Donor Nations Providing Security Assistance, Training for Ukraine

Secretary of Defense Lloyd J. Austin III visited Lucius D. Clay Kaserne, a U.S. Army installation in Germany that is home to the Security Assistance Group-Ukraine and the International Donor

www.defense.gov

Nothing groundbreaking in this update, but I found it a useful summary.

 

[raymondo]

Sky's latest report has a couple of interesting articles:

1. Wagner defies Putin's orders.
2. How Putin will likely be replaced, according to an expert.

Ukraine-Russia war latest: Putin picks ex-bodyguard for senior role - fuelling succession rumours

The Russian president has brought Alexei Dyumin, 51, closer to the centre of power since his re-election in March. Meanwhile, the leaders of France and Germany have said Ukraine should be allowed to strike targets in Russia - but on certain conditions.

news.sky.com

Re Wagner, I think they'll sort out the compensation thingy (probably rarely paid anyway) and Wagner will stay independent. I imagine it will amuse Putin for quite some time to watch Prigozhin and Shoigu fight it out.

 

[Eric the meek]

Re Wagner, I think they'll sort out the compensation thingy (probably rarely paid anyway) and Wagner will stay independent. I imagine it will amuse Putin for quite some time to watch Prigozhin and Shoigu fight it out.

A small part of me still wonders if it is all some kind of elaborate deception. I guess we will find out on 1 July, the deadline by which all Wagner combatants are obliged to sign a contract. We will see.

The Russian elite have such a strange culture (I use the term loosely), characterised by posturing, misplaced arrogance, threats (veiled or explicit), alongside deception, lies, disguise, exaggeration, distraction, obfuscation etc. I wonder if it crosses any of their minds how damaging it is to generations of ordinary future Russians who will follow in their footsteps and try to make their way in this globalised, interconnected world. I'm not at all sure it does. Their ignorance leads them to judge everyone by their own low standards of behaviour, including the westerners they will need to trade with. It will be fascinating to see what emerges post-Putin.

 

[raymondo]

A small part of me still wonders if it is all some kind of elaborate deception. I guess we will find out on 1 July, the deadline by which all Wagner combatants are obliged to sign a contract. We will see.

The Russian elite have such a strange culture (I use the term loosely), characterised by posturing, misplaced arrogance, threats (veiled or explicit), alongside deception, lies, disguise, exaggeration, distraction, obfuscation etc. I wonder if it crosses any of their minds how damaging it is to generations of ordinary future Russians who will follow in their footsteps and try to make their way in this globalised, interconnected world. I'm not at all sure it does. Their ignorance leads them to judge everyone by their own low standards of behaviour, including the westerners they will need to trade with. It will be fascinating to see what emerges post-Putin.

Your nice summary of the culture of the Russian elite

 

[peterward]

A small part of me still wonders if it is all some kind of elaborate deception. I guess we will find out on 1 July, the deadline by which all Wagner combatants are obliged to sign a contract. We will see.

The Russian elite have such a strange culture (I use the term loosely), characterised by posturing, misplaced arrogance, threats (veiled or explicit), alongside deception, lies, disguise, exaggeration, distraction, obfuscation etc. I wonder if it crosses any of their minds how damaging it is to generations of ordinary future Russians who will follow in their footsteps and try to make their way in this globalised, interconnected world. I'm not at all sure it does. Their ignorance leads them to judge everyone by their own low standards of behaviour, including the westerners they will need to trade with. It will be fascinating to see what emerges post-Putin.

Interesting perspective on why Putin tolerates these factions fighting & Prigorzhin etc.

 

[Eric the meek]

Interesting perspective on why Putin tolerates these factions fighting & Prigorzhin etc.

Yes, it's an interesting perspective, and one which seems very plausible.

A while ago, I asked the question 'why is Prigozhin still alive?'. But unlike me, Geraschenko has worked out what is going on and has answered the question! I appreciate it's all speculation, until it is confirmed by the passage of time.

But if it's true, then it means Putin feels that his position as Tsar is under threat. His actions would seem to confirm that he does not feel threatened by Ukraine and her allies, but more threatened by those around him.

 

[driddles]

Excellent article, well worth reading https://www.dailykos.com/stories/20...ch-Through-a-Defense-Line-but-Russia-Couldn-t

 

[raymondo]

Interesting perspective on why Putin tolerates these factions fighting & Prigorzhin etc.

It makes sense

 

[raymondo]

Excellent article, well worth reading https://www.dailykos.com/stories/20...ch-Through-a-Defense-Line-but-Russia-Couldn-t

Thanks @driddles very interesting, detailed explainer of that area's action and possibilities. I hadn't thought much before about infantry density or glide bombs.

 

[Eric the meek]

'I have 25 million reserves' - Shoigu.

Here is the article from the BBC:

Counting Russia's dead in Ukraine - and what it says about the changing face of the war - BBC News

What we learned from counting the Russian dead

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[raymondo]

'I have 25 million reserves' - Shoigu.

Here is the article from the BBC:

Counting Russia's dead in Ukraine - and what it says about the changing face of the war - BBC News

What we learned from counting the Russian dead

www.bbc.co.uk

Interesting thanks