[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[Sid and the Sharknados]

Would people mind taking the Battle of Britain chat to a thread that's not about people fighting and dying right now?

 

[Baldseagull]

Russia is complaining that Ukraine won't engage in dialogue. (Perhaps it's a bit late for that?):

Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov is speaking to Russia's RIA news agency.
He says there are "no arrangements and no pre-conditions for talks with the Kyiv regime".
He blames Ukraine for an "unwillingness to engage in dialogue".
Ukraine has said that any deal must restore their territorial integrity, see the complete withdrawal of Russian troops and the restoration of state borders.
Western countries, including the US, have said that letting Russia keep any of the territory it has taken during the war would send the wrong message to other potential aggressors.

Ukraine-Russia war latest: Putin picks ex-bodyguard for senior role - fuelling succession rumours

The Russian president has brought Alexei Dyumin, 51, closer to the centre of power since his re-election in March. Meanwhile, the leaders of France and Germany have said Ukraine should be allowed to strike targets in Russia - but on certain conditions.

news.sky.com

"Russian Warship, go f*** yourself" was pretty meaningful dialogue.

 

[raymondo]

Would people mind taking the Battle of Britain chat to a thread that's not about people fighting and dying right now?

Thank you

 

[raymondo]

Useful take on the current thrusts from Ukraine.

 

[Eric the meek]

It's derisible

Sometimes, or most of the time, you don't really know what to make of Russian output. It's beyond a load of bollocks.

After having invaded a peaceful country, tortured, raped, committed genocide, ecocide, and tried to turn the country into a fine dust, they complain when the inhabitants won't enter into dialogue.

My guess would be their complaint has two aims. First, it is a message for the Russian people (it's not the Kremlin's fault; it's all Ukraine's fault). Second, they are hoping to 'talk', to buy time to regroup, re-arm and try to influence the US elections next year, so that the flow of weapons to Ukraine is reduced.

 

[SeagullinExile]

My late Uncle was RAF ground crew with a squadron of Hurricanes. At one point his job was to ride out on a motorbike as soon as a plane returned to collect the film from the gun camera on board.

Whenever the pilot fired the guns a photograph/ film was taken. This was taken immediately to be developed so that the intelligence people could ascertain if an enemy plane had been hit potentially and how badly. He said it was a heartbreaking job, some of the pilots came down badly wounded but he's was told just to get the film and get back...medical attention would come later.

I’ve had the pleasure of meeting some RAF vets when I used to look after the Wattenden Arms in Kenley, right next door to the old airstrip. Some harrowing tales indeed. Incredibly brave chaps. The mold was broken after these fellas.

 

[Zeus]

So you think Russian media and Western media are equally trustworthy? Er, ok...

We all get fed propaganda. Especially in war.

 

[Eric the meek]

The birth of unrest in Russia

Report with pictures after the incursions in Belgorod. It's worse (=better) than I realised.

'Putin Is Not In Control': Photos Show Widespread Destruction In Russia's Belgorod Region

As images of destroyed buildings and empty streets in Shebekino spread, experts warn that the Kremlin may be losing political authority over Russia's provinces.

www.rferl.org

(Current Time is the Russian-language network led by RFE/RL in cooperation with VOA. HQ in Prague)

RFE - Radio Free Europe
RL - Radio Liberty
VOA - Voice of America

Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty (RFE/RL) is a US government funded media organization that broadcasts and reports news, information, and analysis to countries in Eastern Europe, Central Asia, Caucasus, and the Middle East.

'Russian journalist Igor Yakovenko told Current Time that Russian President Vladimir Putin "is not in control of the situation in the Belgorod region." He added that, amid the rise of competing armed factions, "we are talking about the birth of unrest in Russia."

Edit: correct link inserted

 

[Triggaaar]

We all get fed propaganda. Especially in war.

Sure, but if you think what the West is saying right now is only about as reliable as what Russia is saying, you're mad.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I’ve had the pleasure of meeting some RAF vets when I used to look after the Wattenden Arms in Kenley, right next door to the old airstrip. Some harrowing tales indeed. Incredibly brave chaps. The mold was broken after these fellas.

No it wasn’t. We have servicemen and women now, and in the last 80 years who have been incredibly brave. A VC awarded in 2015, and a Naval nurse getting the MC in 2009.
There are veterans of the Falklands on this board, one of whom was on the Sheffield. Don’t tell me they weren’t incredibly brave.

 

[SeagullinExile]

No it wasn’t. We have servicemen and women now, and in the last 80 years who have been incredibly brave. A VC awarded in 2015, and a Naval nurse getting the MC in 2009.
There are veterans of the Falklands on this board, one of whom was on the Sheffield. Don’t tell me they weren’t incredibly brave.

I didn’t say they weren’t brave. Wind your neck in you f***ing tool.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I didn’t say they weren’t brave. Wind your neck in you f***ing tool.

You implied that later generations weren’t brave. Broke the mould means exactly that.

 

[Nobby]

I didn’t say they weren’t brave. Wind your neck in you f***ing tool.

Calm down. The mold wasn’t broken, I know it’s just a saying - but no need to be abusive was there
Many brave people about still who would do the same thing.
Those guys didn’t have a lot of choice - they did what they had to do.

 

[peterward]

"Russian Warship, go f*** yourself" was pretty meaningful dialogue.

100%. The only negotiations Putin and Peskov should get will be with their pleas at the ICC.

As for now negotiations are with Himars, Storm Shadows and the barrel of Ukrainian guns until the fascists are fully expelled.

 

[SeagullinExile]

I didn’t say they weren’t brave. Wind your neck in you f***ing tool.

It’s an expression. The youth of today would never offer up the same sacrifice as these young men did in WW2. Just look at St Nazaire for example, that was pretty much a suicide mission. Every man was offered the chance to pull out the night before...not one took up the offer. My point is, the vast majority of today’s youth wouldn’t even contemplate such sacrifice. It just the way society has gone unfortunately.

 

[rogersix]

It’s an expression. The youth of today would never offer up the same sacrifice as these young men did in WW2. Just look at St Nazaire for example, that was pretty much a suicide mission. Every man was offered the chance to pull out the night before...not one took up the offer. My point is, the vast majority of today’s youth wouldn’t even contemplate such sacrifice. It just the way society has gone unfortunately.

there is no society, we are a collective of individuals. we are all thatcher's children now

 

[schmunk]

It’s an expression. The youth of today would never offer up the same sacrifice as these young men did in WW2.

OK Boomer.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

It’s an expression. The youth of today would never offer up the same sacrifice as these young men did in WW2. Just look at St Nazaire for example, that was pretty much a suicide mission. Every man was offered the chance to pull out the night before...not one took up the offer. My point is, the vast majority of today’s youth wouldn’t even contemplate such sacrifice. It just the way society has gone unfortunately.

The St Nazaire raid, Cockleshell Heroes, were Royal Marines, who were Commandoes.
Most servicemen in WW2 were conscripts, but the vast majority of Commandoes were volunteers for that service.

 

[peterward]

Useful take on the current thrusts from Ukraine.

Excellent contributer on twitter, another thread that expands on that and even predicts major UKR breakthrough within 2 weeks is Trent Telenko here.



And Mike Martin, who is ex military strategist and knows his stuff, has ongoing thread, he adds too predicting similar



If you can suffer the voice there's a Ukrainians (in English) brilliant daily update video of progress that's often ahead and deadly accurate.

https://youtube.com/@RFU

And big news today..... which is going to be causing ramifications in Russia, is Russian MOD is forcing all PMC under its command and onto MOD contracts.... that means Prigorzhin and Wagner will be under Shoigu/Gerasimov and the Russia MOD..... don't think Prigorzhin will be too happy!



It's going pretty well for Ukraine and not well for Russia so far, thus Russian calls for negotiations.

 

[Hugo Rune]

Perhaps it’s time for NATO to declare the Wagner group a terrorist organisation and carry out some operations. Perhaps trying to pin the shooting down of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 on them could justify a strike or two?