- Jul 10, 2003
- 26,187
So it's not complicated at all, just a simple old battle between good and evil
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[News] Hamas/Gaza/Israel
- Thread starter Greenbag50
- Start date
So it's not complicated at all, just a simple old battle between good and evil
- Oct 20, 2022
- 5,030
1. The first step to a meaningful and informed discussion is recognising that it actually is … there are extremists on both sides as I pointed out in an earlier post
2. ’Restrictions etc’ does not go nearly far enough to accurately represent the lives of Palestinians living in Jerusalem and Gazza whose civil and human rights are routinely infringed or not even recognised. https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2022/02/israels-system-of-apartheid/#:~:text=Since 2002, Israel has adopted,separate Palestinians from their families.
“Direct attacks on the Palestinian people’s homes, schools, livelihoods and water sources are nothing but Israel’s attempts to curtail the Palestinians’ right to self-determination and to threaten their very existence,”
And with the exception of the Trump administration and Netanyahu’s current Government, the ’Western World’ is a ‘lot more sympathetic’ to the plight of the Palestinian people than perhaps you realise - it goes without saying, sympathy is also with the Israeli people living under the constant fear of rocket attacks from extremists forces in the occupied areas too.
3. I suggest you google the Deir Yassin massacre and see links above
4. The only ‘ideology’ that should be relevant to both sides of any conflict is the questionable degree of humanity each side shows to the other in expressing their differences and self interests.
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chimneys
Well-known member
- Jun 11, 2007
- 3,592
Surprised you even bothered mate! I think he's George Lucas!’So it's not complicated at all, just a simple old battle between good and evil
Crawley Dingo
Political thread tourist.
- Mar 31, 2022
- 606
So we are in Samson option territory, Nuclear war incoming.
I have often disagreed with you but not on this occasion.
I'll bounce this when it doesn't. Bet you can't if it does.
Yup. I've had endless rows with one of my brothers about this. Yes, Netanyahu is a ****. But he was a democratically elected ****. Yes the Israelis have committed atrocities. So have the British*. The fact of the matter is that you cease to be a **** when you stop. Several states around Israel won't stop till they have thrown all the Jews into the sea. No matter how badly Israel has behaved its policy is not genocide. The other lot have clearly shown, by the bestiality and depraved glee they express when the kill the innocent, theirs is.
That doesn't mean it isn't a hideous mess, however. And it is undeniable that if the Palestinians and chums did throw all the Jews into the sea it would cease. It was once called the final solution. Who knows? Perhaps the Palestinians are aware of it and think they can stick bow tie on it and call it a plan?
*(When peaceful protesters defied a government order and demonstrated against British colonial rule in Amritsar, India, on 13 April 1919, they were blocked inside the walled Jallianwala Gardens and fired upon by Gurkha soldiers. The soldiers, under the orders of Brigadier Reginald Dyer, kept firing until they ran out of ammunition, killing between 379 and 1,000 protesters and injuring another 1,100 within 10 minutes. Brigadier Dyer was later lauded a hero by the British public, who raised £26,000 for him as a thank you.).
Wardy's twin
Well-known member
- Oct 21, 2014
- 8,520
The situation in Ireland was a lot less complex and essentially there were just two parties trying to rationally work out their differences in the mid 90s with help from US, UK and Eire none of whom had any interest in the conflict persisting.
Iran is hell bent on destroying Israel and are doing it by proxy using Hamas (and Hezbollah in the north and east). All the time this external threat exists then many Israelis will support the right wing parties and although in the minority they get into power by making alliances with Zionist extremists parties who are driving the annexation of land which continues to exacerbate the problem.
I see their there is some mention of pan-arabism, this conflict is not about Arab v Jew, its Israel versus Iran with the latter sitting in the background (most of the time) supplying weapons and planning attacks using people who are aggrieved by what's going on. Not sure if people are aware but there have been a number of actions between Israeli and Iran in Syria over the last few years. there is no way Israel will give up the Golan Heights. Israel is actually quite friendly with Saudi, Egypt and a few other Arab states who are anti- Iran.
It would help Israel politically if they reduced the annexation of land on the West Bank and indeed set up a prosperous Palestinian community to show what life could be but the attacks are just pushing that further away ( note this had happened previously but odd terrorist attacks persuaded a lot of Israelis this was not the right action).
Iran is hell bent on destroying Israel and are doing it by proxy using Hamas (and Hezbollah in the north and east). All the time this external threat exists then many Israelis will support the right wing parties and although in the minority they get into power by making alliances with Zionist extremists parties who are driving the annexation of land which continues to exacerbate the problem.
I see their there is some mention of pan-arabism, this conflict is not about Arab v Jew, its Israel versus Iran with the latter sitting in the background (most of the time) supplying weapons and planning attacks using people who are aggrieved by what's going on. Not sure if people are aware but there have been a number of actions between Israeli and Iran in Syria over the last few years. there is no way Israel will give up the Golan Heights. Israel is actually quite friendly with Saudi, Egypt and a few other Arab states who are anti- Iran.
It would help Israel politically if they reduced the annexation of land on the West Bank and indeed set up a prosperous Palestinian community to show what life could be but the attacks are just pushing that further away ( note this had happened previously but odd terrorist attacks persuaded a lot of Israelis this was not the right action).
Live by the sea
Well-known member
- Oct 21, 2016
- 4,718
Excellent intelligent and balanced summary - much better than mine .
Wardy's twin
Well-known member
- Oct 21, 2014
- 8,520
So should Alsace Lorraine be German, should south west France be Spanish or indeed should it be part of a separate Basque state. should all Americans leave the US and give it back to the Indians (who often pinched land off each other). It 80 years ago can the land just be returned? At what point should land be returned given there were Jewish settlers in the area 2000 years ago?
I think the Israeli response is generally more ‘one hundred eyes-for-an-eye’.Hamas did their usual cowardly thing. Israel do their usual eye-for-an-eye response. So the cycle continues
chimneys
Well-known member
- Jun 11, 2007
- 3,592
What I’m struggling with is how Israel got caught with its pants round its ankles.
Motorbikes, a tractor and a few paragliders against what I thought was meant to be the best army in the world. Surreal!!
The hostage videos are absolutely horrific and my heart goes out to the innocents on both sides.
- Aug 7, 2003
- 7,854
I wouldn't be surprised if Russia and Iran are supporting Hamas, Iran because of their (Leaders) hate of israel and Russia as a distraction for the USA in its support of Ukraine. Just an extension of their involvement in Syria. Global chess with human lives as pawns.
Wardy's twin
Well-known member
- Oct 21, 2014
- 8,520
Iran are in conflict with Israel and so will be behind it, certainly providing the armaments. Surprised they did not get Hezbollah to do the same in the North in a coordinated attack though that is an area which Israel has been fighting actively the last few years on a daily basis.
Machiavelli
Well-known member
I doubt it myself. If we were talking about Hezbollah, then it'd be a different story.
Wardy's twin
Well-known member
- Oct 21, 2014
- 8,520
Think its a Holy period there at the moment .... same thing happened with Yom Kippur in 1973...What I’m struggling with is how Israel got caught with its pants round its ankles.
Motorbikes, a tractor and a few paragliders against what I thought was meant to be the best army in the world. Surreal!!
The hostage videos are absolutely horrific and my heart goes out to the innocents on both sides.
Tom Hark Preston Park
Will Post For Cash
- Jul 6, 2003
- 70,687
And why not? They'll fight tooth and nail for the survival of their nation state - with or without US backing
- Aug 8, 2005
- 26,671
As it should be. Put yourself in their shoes. Surrounded by enemies. The only way to survive is to always bring revenge x 10 on them. If they didn’t they would be walked all over.
- Jul 10, 2003
- 26,187
Now I had always thought this was a fight between Israel and Palestine being backed by Various Arab states, the USA and various Western states, Russia and various Eastern European States, some Arab states supporting Western states (even if they fund terrorist acts against those western states), some Arab states backing Russia, nearly all the states trying to get something out of it and a background of a good few hundred years of ethnic history.
But this thread has finally set my mind at rest that it's just good people v evil people
But this thread has finally set my mind at rest that it's just good people v evil people