[Other Sport] F1 2024
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AstroSloth
Well-known member
- Dec 29, 2020
- 1,056
Aston Martin and Ferrari coming out with beautiful cars as usual.
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- #103
The Vcarb as well I think. Proper livery, not too much carbon on show. Takes a lot of design cues from what was probably the best of the Toro Rosso liveries.
Flounce
Well-known member
- Nov 15, 2006
- 1,440
Any move to Ferrari by Hamilton bodes well for some classic tantrums over strategy
Given Ferrari’s ability to make totally the wrong calls maybe they should not be arguing with a eight time world champion (robbed of the 8th one). He called Mercedes wrong direction on the car for a year and a half before they changed it, so maybe point the finger at someone other than your pet hate of Hamilton, he has been right more often than not on strategy calls imo.
I look forward to Max’s tantrums when Red Bull are no longer a country mile in front of everyone else though
Creaky
Well-known member
Are you sure, really really sure, that he's been right more often than wrong?Given Ferrari’s ability to make totally the wrong calls maybe they should not be arguing with a eight time world champion (robbed of the 8th one). He called Mercedes wrong direction on the car for a year and a half before they changed it, so maybe point the finger at someone other than your pet hate of Hamilton, he has been right more often than not on strategy calls imo.
I look forward to Max’s tantrums when Red Bull are no longer a country mile in front of everyone else though
And no, I don't have a pet hate for LH any more than for any other driver in F1. After all he's proved his ability time and time again.
Driver spur of the moment radio conversations are one of the things that add to the enjoyment of F1. Maybe take a second or two and realise that your idol isn't perfect albeit a very, very good driver.
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- #106
We've seen the livery already, on a 2023 car, but today we get to see the launch version of the 2024 McLaren.
It'll run for up to 200 miles today around Silverstone. As will the new Mercedes, which is due to be revealed later. Red Bull ran yesterday, and there were some spy shots of the car. Nothing good enough to really make out any detail other than the fact that the Red Bull livery for 2024 is almost the same as last years. And the year befores. And the one before that. You get the picture.
It'll run for up to 200 miles today around Silverstone. As will the new Mercedes, which is due to be revealed later. Red Bull ran yesterday, and there were some spy shots of the car. Nothing good enough to really make out any detail other than the fact that the Red Bull livery for 2024 is almost the same as last years. And the year befores. And the one before that. You get the picture.
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- #107
2024 Mercedes:
Can it deliver for Hamilton? As expected, it has a new rear suspension layout switching from pull rod to push rod. That has necessitated an all new gearbox casing. The chassis is also completely new. Looks to have some interesting aero solutions as well.
Can it deliver for Hamilton? As expected, it has a new rear suspension layout switching from pull rod to push rod. That has necessitated an all new gearbox casing. The chassis is also completely new. Looks to have some interesting aero solutions as well.
- Thread starter
- #108
Red Bull car launched last night. Same old livery, so nothing special there. However... they have some interesting new developments that they've been keen to try to hide. Innovative sidepod solution, in particular around the radiator intakes.
Edit: also, don't pay too much attention to that nose. It's *clearly* not what they'll be running come season start, as there's an obvious additional panel there that's been added to hide something. It's speculated they might have a short nose that connects to the third wing plane instead of the first/second as has been standard on other cars so far.
Edit: also, don't pay too much attention to that nose. It's *clearly* not what they'll be running come season start, as there's an obvious additional panel there that's been added to hide something. It's speculated they might have a short nose that connects to the third wing plane instead of the first/second as has been standard on other cars so far.
Flounce
Well-known member
- Nov 15, 2006
- 1,440
Not sure I’ve ever seen a snidey comment from you about any other driver than Hamilton, hence my conviction that you have an agenda against him. You are not alone..
Once he retires my hero is likely to be Lando
Creaky
Well-known member
SnideyNot sure I’ve ever seen a snidey comment from you about any other driver than Hamilton, hence my conviction that you have an agenda against him. You are not alone..
Once he retires my hero is likely to be Lando
I hardly think that highlighting the combination of Ferrari, (and some of their strategy decisions), with LH, (and some of his comments re strategy), will be fun can be considered snidey.
Not sure I'd go so far as being my hero but of all the current drivers my support is for Lando.
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- #111
So - official preseason testing kicks off tomorrow. 3 days of intensive testing. 1 car per team, so teams are having to split testing duties between the drivers. Not all of the teams have announced who will be driving when as yet. From those who have, a minor interesting difference between Red Bull and the others, with Red Bull choosing to give both drivers a full day (Verstappen day 1, Perez day 3), while the other team (Ferrari, Alpine, and Haas) have all chosen to split duties across all three days and rotate who gets morning vs afternoon.
Schedule of driving duties for the 3 day test:
Edit: Mercedes follow Red Bull in assigning both drivers a full day each, and splitting the remaining day. Hamilton will drive 3 sessions in a row (all day Thursday, Friday morning).
Schedule of driving duties for the 3 day test:
| TEAM | DAY 1 | DAY 2 | DAY 3 |
| Red Bull | AM - Verstappen PM - Verstappen | AM - Perez PM - Verstappen | AM - Perez PM - Perez |
| Ferrari | AM - Leclerc PM - Sainz | AM - Sainz PM - Leclerc | AM - Leclerc PM - Sainz |
| Mercedes | AM - Russell PM - Russell | AM - Hamilton PM - Hamilton | AM - Hamilton PM - Russell |
| Alpine | AM - Ocon PM - Gasly | AM - Gasly PM - Ocon | AM - Ocon PM - Gasly |
| McLaren | AM - Piastri PM - Norris | AM - Piastri PM - Norris | AM - Norris PM - Piastri |
| Sauber | AM - Bottas PM - Zhou | AM - Zhou PM - Bottas | AM - Bottas PM - Zhou |
| Aston Martin | AM - Alonso PM - Stroll | AM - Alonso PM - | AM - PM - |
| Haas | AM - Magnussen PM - Hulkenberg | AM - Hulkenberg PM - Magnussen | AM - Magnussen PM - Hulkenberg |
| VCARB | AM - Tsunoda PM - Ricciardo | AM - Tsunoda PM - Ricciardo | AM - Ricciardo PM - Tsunoda |
| Williams | AM - Albon PM - Sargeant | AM - Sargeant PM - Sargeant | AM - Albon PM - Albon |
Edit: Mercedes follow Red Bull in assigning both drivers a full day each, and splitting the remaining day. Hamilton will drive 3 sessions in a row (all day Thursday, Friday morning).
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- Thread starter
- #112
Times from Wednesday morning session:
1 Max Verstappen (Red Bull) 1m32.548s, C3 tyre, 66 laps
2 Charles Leclerc (Ferrari) +0.699s, C3, 64 laps
3 Fernando Alonso (Aston Martin) +0.837s, C3, 77 laps
4 Oscar Piastri (McLaren) +1.110s, C3, 57 laps
5 Yuki Tsunoda (RB) +1.588s, C3, 64 laps
6 George Russell (Mercedes) +1.682ss, C3, 48 laps
7 Valtteri Bottas (Sauber) +1.883s, C3, 68 laps
8 Alex Albon (Williams) +2.039s, C4, 40 laps
9 Esteban Ocon (Alpine) +2.129s, C1, 60 laps
10 Kevin Magnussen (Haas) +3.144s, C3, 66 laps
Tyres: C1 hardest, C2 hard, C3 medium, C4 soft, C5 softest
Very, very early on but that time from Max does look ominous. Albon and Williams the only team with any obvious concerns, with the car stopping on track towards the end of the session. Verstappen and Russell are the only drivers who will stay in their cars for the afternoon session.
1 Max Verstappen (Red Bull) 1m32.548s, C3 tyre, 66 laps
2 Charles Leclerc (Ferrari) +0.699s, C3, 64 laps
3 Fernando Alonso (Aston Martin) +0.837s, C3, 77 laps
4 Oscar Piastri (McLaren) +1.110s, C3, 57 laps
5 Yuki Tsunoda (RB) +1.588s, C3, 64 laps
6 George Russell (Mercedes) +1.682ss, C3, 48 laps
7 Valtteri Bottas (Sauber) +1.883s, C3, 68 laps
8 Alex Albon (Williams) +2.039s, C4, 40 laps
9 Esteban Ocon (Alpine) +2.129s, C1, 60 laps
10 Kevin Magnussen (Haas) +3.144s, C3, 66 laps
Tyres: C1 hardest, C2 hard, C3 medium, C4 soft, C5 softest
Very, very early on but that time from Max does look ominous. Albon and Williams the only team with any obvious concerns, with the car stopping on track towards the end of the session. Verstappen and Russell are the only drivers who will stay in their cars for the afternoon session.
Oh well, roll on 2025…
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- #114
End of day 1. Verstappen and Russell were the only drivers to run both sessions. Headline here is Verstappen's astonishingly quick time to top the table. Norris did (briefly) top the table for a while during the afternoon session, but Max promptly threw in a much quicker time to take it away again - ending up 1.2s quicker than in the morning. If we use that as a benchmark for track evolution between morning and afternoon, we can maybe get a very early feel for how the drivers are stacking up against each other (yeah, it's day 1, and yep ... different testing patterns etc).
Anyway, going through each team:
Red Bull - No driver comparison. But Max looks like he can put in quick times at will. But have any of the others actually put in an effort lap yet?
McLaren - Norris and Piastri look evenly matched, with the gap between them pretty close to the gap between Max's AM and PM times.
Ferrari - Sainz slower than Leclerc? Or not put in a push lap?
VCARB - Ricciardo looks to have the advantage on Tsunoda, especially as he fluffed the final corner of what would have been a P2-worthy lap.
Alpine - no real comparison possible. Ocon didn't get a fast lap in on the C3.
Aston - No real surprises - Alonso more impressive. In fact, if you give him the same 1.2s improvement Max made he's a comfortable P2.
Sauber - Bottas more impressive so far.
Mercedes - No driver comparison. Russell didn't make a big jump in times in the afternoon, suspect they must be working on understanding the car rather than performance.
Williams - Both drivers ran into issues and had their sessions ended early. Albon had a fuel pump issue, and Sargeant had a drive shaft failure (possibly self-inflicted as he had a big spin.
Haas - Oh dear. We know they aren't focussed on performance yet, instead wanting to understand tyre longevity. But still, ouch.
1 Max Verstappen (Red Bull) 1m31.344s, C3, 143 laps
2 Lando Norris (McLaren) +1.140s, C3, 73 laps
3 Carlos Sainz (Ferrari) +1.240s, C3, 69 laps
4 Daniel Ricciardo (RB) +1.255s, C3, 52 laps
5 Pierre Gasly (Alpine) +1.461s, C3, 61 laps
6 Lance Stroll (Aston Martin) +1.663s, C3, 54 laps
7 Charles Leclerc (Ferrari) +1.903s, C3, 64 laps
8 Fernando Alonso (Aston Martin) +2.041s, C3, 77 laps
9 Oscar Piastri (McLaren) +2.314s, C3, 57 laps
10 Zhou Guanyu (Sauber) +2.527s, C3, 63 laps
11 Logan Sargeant (Williams) +2.538s, C3, 21 laps
12 George Russell (Mercedes) +2.765s, C3, 122 laps
13 Yuki Tsunoda (RB) +2.792s, C3, 64 laps
14 Valtteri Bottas (Sauber) +3.087s, C3, 68 laps
15 Alex Albon (Williams) +3.243s, C4, 40 laps
16 Esteban Ocon (Alpine) +3.333s, C1, 60 laps
17 Kevin Magnussen (Haas) +4.348s, C3, 66 laps
18 Nico Hulkenberg (Haas) +4.562s, C3, 82 laps
Tyre key: C1 hardest, C2 hard, C3 medium, C4 soft, C5 softest
Anyway, going through each team:
Red Bull - No driver comparison. But Max looks like he can put in quick times at will. But have any of the others actually put in an effort lap yet?
McLaren - Norris and Piastri look evenly matched, with the gap between them pretty close to the gap between Max's AM and PM times.
Ferrari - Sainz slower than Leclerc? Or not put in a push lap?
VCARB - Ricciardo looks to have the advantage on Tsunoda, especially as he fluffed the final corner of what would have been a P2-worthy lap.
Alpine - no real comparison possible. Ocon didn't get a fast lap in on the C3.
Aston - No real surprises - Alonso more impressive. In fact, if you give him the same 1.2s improvement Max made he's a comfortable P2.
Sauber - Bottas more impressive so far.
Mercedes - No driver comparison. Russell didn't make a big jump in times in the afternoon, suspect they must be working on understanding the car rather than performance.
Williams - Both drivers ran into issues and had their sessions ended early. Albon had a fuel pump issue, and Sargeant had a drive shaft failure (possibly self-inflicted as he had a big spin.
Haas - Oh dear. We know they aren't focussed on performance yet, instead wanting to understand tyre longevity. But still, ouch.
1 Max Verstappen (Red Bull) 1m31.344s, C3, 143 laps
2 Lando Norris (McLaren) +1.140s, C3, 73 laps
3 Carlos Sainz (Ferrari) +1.240s, C3, 69 laps
4 Daniel Ricciardo (RB) +1.255s, C3, 52 laps
5 Pierre Gasly (Alpine) +1.461s, C3, 61 laps
6 Lance Stroll (Aston Martin) +1.663s, C3, 54 laps
7 Charles Leclerc (Ferrari) +1.903s, C3, 64 laps
8 Fernando Alonso (Aston Martin) +2.041s, C3, 77 laps
9 Oscar Piastri (McLaren) +2.314s, C3, 57 laps
10 Zhou Guanyu (Sauber) +2.527s, C3, 63 laps
11 Logan Sargeant (Williams) +2.538s, C3, 21 laps
12 George Russell (Mercedes) +2.765s, C3, 122 laps
13 Yuki Tsunoda (RB) +2.792s, C3, 64 laps
14 Valtteri Bottas (Sauber) +3.087s, C3, 68 laps
15 Alex Albon (Williams) +3.243s, C4, 40 laps
16 Esteban Ocon (Alpine) +3.333s, C1, 60 laps
17 Kevin Magnussen (Haas) +4.348s, C3, 66 laps
18 Nico Hulkenberg (Haas) +4.562s, C3, 82 laps
Tyre key: C1 hardest, C2 hard, C3 medium, C4 soft, C5 softest
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AstroSloth
Well-known member
- Dec 29, 2020
- 1,056
Side by side comparisons of all of the 2023 Vs 2024 cars
Starkest difference has to be the Red Bull, although plenty of teams have altered their approach from the start of 23 to 24.
Starkest difference has to be the Red Bull, although plenty of teams have altered their approach from the start of 23 to 24.
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- #117
Busy day yesterday, didn't have much time for keeping track of testing. Times are below. What I've picked up from pundits is that it appears that Ferrari might have caught up with Red Bull enough to be a potential threat. Or, on the other hand, Red Bull might be even further ahead than they were last year. I guess today might give us the answer, if we get some proper qually sims runs going in.
Biggest story of yesterday was the morning session being ended early after a drain cover came loose. Hamilton initially caused it to come loose, then Leclerc hit it and damaged the floor of his car (sound familiar?). Ferrari were able to fix the car ahead of the afternoon session, where Sainz put it to good use setting a very fast time on the C4 soft tyre (Note: race weekend next week will use the C3, C2, C1 sets). Pundits estimate that even after adjusting for the difference between C3 and C4, that time was still faster than Perez's time in the Red Bull. After further adjusting for the "Verstappen effect" the feeling is that a qually head-to-head between Verstappen and Leclerc might be tight.
More importantly, both Perez and Sainz did a full race sim in the afternoon. And the result of that was that Sainz was significantly quicker across the distance than Perez. Early signs are that Ferrari might have addressed their tyre degradation issue from last year - if they have, they might be a race threat.
1 Carlos Sainz (Ferrari) 1m29.921s, C4, 84 laps
2 Sergio Perez (Red Bull) +0.758s, C3, 129 laps
3 Lewis Hamilton (Mercedes) +1.145s, C3, 123 laps
4 Lando Norris (McLaren) +1.335s, C3, 52 laps
5 Daniel Ricciardo (RB) +1.490s, C4, 88 laps
6 Charles Leclerc (Ferrari) +1.829s, C3, 54 laps
7 Lance Stroll (Aston Martin) +2.108s, C3, 96 laps
8 Esteban Ocon (Alpine) +2.140s, C3, 78 laps
9 Valtteri Bottas (Sauber) +2.306s, C3, 97 laps
10 Oscar Piastri (McLaren) +2.407s, C3, 35 laps
11 Logan Sargeant (Williams) +2.657s, C4, 117 laps
12 Fernando Alonso (Aston Martin) +3.132s, C3, 31 laps
13 Zhou Guanyu (Sauber) +3.794s, C3, 38 laps
14 Pierre Gasly (Alpine) +3.883s, C3, 33 laps
15 Kevin Magnussen (Haas) +6.690s, C3, 93 laps
16 Nico Hulkenberg (Haas) +7.588s, C3, 31 laps
17 Yuki Tsunoda (RB) +8.153s, C2, 40 laps
Tyre key: C1 hardest, C2 hard, C3 medium, C4 soft, C5 softest
Biggest story of yesterday was the morning session being ended early after a drain cover came loose. Hamilton initially caused it to come loose, then Leclerc hit it and damaged the floor of his car (sound familiar?). Ferrari were able to fix the car ahead of the afternoon session, where Sainz put it to good use setting a very fast time on the C4 soft tyre (Note: race weekend next week will use the C3, C2, C1 sets). Pundits estimate that even after adjusting for the difference between C3 and C4, that time was still faster than Perez's time in the Red Bull. After further adjusting for the "Verstappen effect" the feeling is that a qually head-to-head between Verstappen and Leclerc might be tight.
More importantly, both Perez and Sainz did a full race sim in the afternoon. And the result of that was that Sainz was significantly quicker across the distance than Perez. Early signs are that Ferrari might have addressed their tyre degradation issue from last year - if they have, they might be a race threat.
1 Carlos Sainz (Ferrari) 1m29.921s, C4, 84 laps
2 Sergio Perez (Red Bull) +0.758s, C3, 129 laps
3 Lewis Hamilton (Mercedes) +1.145s, C3, 123 laps
4 Lando Norris (McLaren) +1.335s, C3, 52 laps
5 Daniel Ricciardo (RB) +1.490s, C4, 88 laps
6 Charles Leclerc (Ferrari) +1.829s, C3, 54 laps
7 Lance Stroll (Aston Martin) +2.108s, C3, 96 laps
8 Esteban Ocon (Alpine) +2.140s, C3, 78 laps
9 Valtteri Bottas (Sauber) +2.306s, C3, 97 laps
10 Oscar Piastri (McLaren) +2.407s, C3, 35 laps
11 Logan Sargeant (Williams) +2.657s, C4, 117 laps
12 Fernando Alonso (Aston Martin) +3.132s, C3, 31 laps
13 Zhou Guanyu (Sauber) +3.794s, C3, 38 laps
14 Pierre Gasly (Alpine) +3.883s, C3, 33 laps
15 Kevin Magnussen (Haas) +6.690s, C3, 93 laps
16 Nico Hulkenberg (Haas) +7.588s, C3, 31 laps
17 Yuki Tsunoda (RB) +8.153s, C2, 40 laps
Tyre key: C1 hardest, C2 hard, C3 medium, C4 soft, C5 softest
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- Thread starter
- #118
Right. It's Race Week. That means it's time for my top ten predictions for the season. Last year's predictions were ... more miss than hit. Must do better. Some of these are probably slam dunks, others might be very debatable and not last more than a few weekends before being obviously wrong.
1. Max Verstappen is WDC again. Wins more than 50% of the races, but doesn't quite have everything as easy as last season.
2. At least 3 different teams win at least 1 race each. I'll even take a stab at who: Red Bull, Ferrari, McLaren.
3. Ferrari start the season much closer to Red Bull and have solved their in-race tyre degradation problem from last year. Double-podium results are well within reach regularly, and Leclerc finally converts a pole position into a win.
4. Perez struggles with the additional pressure applied by Ferrari. Red Bull's patience wears thin rapidly, and a shocking Miami race off the back of one of those "supportive" Red Bull statements about putting an arm around him but needing to see his results improve sees him on his way out.
5. Ricciardo dominates Tsunoda, and scores regular points for VCARB in the midfield scrap. Replaces Perez at Red Bull for the Imola round.
6. Alpine are the shock failures of the season, slipping into an almighty ding-dong battle with Haas for the wooden spoon.
7. McLaren and Mercedes are both much stronger than they were at the start of 2023, but find themselves behind Ferrari. Both are nevertheless regular podium chasers.
8. Alonso performs more magic with Aston Martin, and rumours rapidly grow about Mercedes targeting him to replace Hamilton.
9. Sargeant continues to get spanked by Albon, leading to a mid-season swap for Mercedes Junior Andrea Kimi Antonelli.
10. The Andretti entry continues to be a thorn in the FOM's side, and by the end of the season their entry for 2026 has been accepted.
1. Max Verstappen is WDC again. Wins more than 50% of the races, but doesn't quite have everything as easy as last season.
2. At least 3 different teams win at least 1 race each. I'll even take a stab at who: Red Bull, Ferrari, McLaren.
3. Ferrari start the season much closer to Red Bull and have solved their in-race tyre degradation problem from last year. Double-podium results are well within reach regularly, and Leclerc finally converts a pole position into a win.
4. Perez struggles with the additional pressure applied by Ferrari. Red Bull's patience wears thin rapidly, and a shocking Miami race off the back of one of those "supportive" Red Bull statements about putting an arm around him but needing to see his results improve sees him on his way out.
5. Ricciardo dominates Tsunoda, and scores regular points for VCARB in the midfield scrap. Replaces Perez at Red Bull for the Imola round.
6. Alpine are the shock failures of the season, slipping into an almighty ding-dong battle with Haas for the wooden spoon.
7. McLaren and Mercedes are both much stronger than they were at the start of 2023, but find themselves behind Ferrari. Both are nevertheless regular podium chasers.
8. Alonso performs more magic with Aston Martin, and rumours rapidly grow about Mercedes targeting him to replace Hamilton.
9. Sargeant continues to get spanked by Albon, leading to a mid-season swap for Mercedes Junior Andrea Kimi Antonelli.
10. The Andretti entry continues to be a thorn in the FOM's side, and by the end of the season their entry for 2026 has been accepted.
So who do you think would come in at VCARB (horrible team name) if Ricciardo replaces Perez mid-season. Lawson?
Good predictions, let's see how you go this time.
My initial thought (I certainly won't be attempting a set of predictions!) is that you're correct about Ferrari being closer, possibly a lot closer. I don't think there's any other reason for Hamilton going there. People talk about the romance of it all and Ferrari being the team everyone wants to drive for, which is fine up to a point, but he's a winner first and foremost and will have been getting mighty fed up with the Merc's recent performance.
c.f. another red team that 'everyone wants to play for' in Man United. Not any more they don't. But they'll be rushing there if Radcliffe sorts them out.
I would personally LOVE either Lando or George to win a GP, preferably both, but I still don't quite see it this season. Will need some luck in Lando's case and a near miracle in George's.